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<blockquote data-quote="Obryn" data-source="post: 4682014" data-attributes="member: 11821">Let me start near the end...I'll disagree on this point, first.&nbsp; Elf cleric archers are very, very good in 4e.&nbsp; Add a Ranger multiclass, and they're pretty amazing.Yes, clerics have ranged powers.&nbsp; However, those ranges are generally 5 - which is kinda short, really.When I ran an Elf Cleric Archer, I didn't use the bow most of the time, but I used it plenty.Now, continuing from the start...There aren't any rules for dulling your axe on a wall.&nbsp; That's a ruling, not a rule.If you can make a ruling on dulling your axe or breaking your hammer, you can make a ruling about &quot;fatigue&quot; or what have you from over-casting - or alternately make a ruling that magic missiles just don't do that.So, let me see if I get this right...(1) Doing your at-will attack for 12 rounds is boring.(2) Firing a crossbow or doing simple swings with your sword for 12 rounds is somehow not boring.I'm perplexed.&nbsp; If you remove at-will powers, your basic attacks become your at-wills.&nbsp; Basic attacks do less interesting stuff and have less overall potency than at-wills.&nbsp; What's more, the structure of 4e basically means that classes are defined primarily by their powers.&nbsp; At-will powers are one way that your fighter or ranger will always play differently from your swordmage or cleric.So basically this primarily works to benefit classes which already need Strength &amp; Dexterity...?&nbsp; I think there's a broader and more far-reaching effect than you anticipate.As for the rest, I noticed that you don't seem to be talking about all at-wills.&nbsp; You didn't mention, for instance, any melee-type At-Wills.&nbsp; Really, what you were looking at were the magical ranged at-wills, at least as far as I saw.&nbsp; Is this a coincidence?-O</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Obryn, post: 4682014, member: 11821"] Let me start near the end... I'll disagree on this point, first. Elf cleric archers are very, very good in 4e. Add a Ranger multiclass, and they're pretty amazing. Yes, clerics have ranged powers. However, those ranges are generally 5 - which is kinda short, really. When I ran an Elf Cleric Archer, I didn't use the bow [I]most[/I] of the time, but I used it plenty. Now, continuing from the start... There aren't any rules for dulling your axe on a wall. That's a ruling, not a rule. If you can make a ruling on dulling your axe or breaking your hammer, you can make a ruling about "fatigue" or what have you from over-casting - or alternately make a ruling that magic missiles just don't do that. So, let me see if I get this right... (1) Doing your at-will attack for 12 rounds is boring. (2) Firing a crossbow or doing simple swings with your sword for 12 rounds is somehow [I]not[/I] boring. I'm perplexed. If you remove at-will powers, your basic attacks [I]become[/I] your at-wills. Basic attacks do less interesting stuff and have less overall potency than at-wills. What's more, the structure of 4e basically means that classes are defined primarily by their powers. At-will powers are one way that your fighter or ranger will always play differently from your swordmage or cleric. So basically this primarily works to benefit classes which already need Strength & Dexterity...? I think there's a broader and more far-reaching effect than you anticipate. As for the rest, I noticed that you don't seem to be talking about [I]all[/I] at-wills. You didn't mention, for instance, any melee-type At-Wills. Really, what you were looking at were the magical ranged at-wills, at least as far as I saw. Is this a coincidence? -O [/QUOTE]

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