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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 4686297" data-attributes="member: 5143">I understand that.  I even thought about doing the same thing myself when I first looked at the rules.  What you want is weak casters at low level who become more powerful at high level, same as 3e.  You can do that, but no one will want to be a wizard.  You are taking an already weak class and making them weaker.  Basically, giving your players the option to choose a martial class or suck.  But at least you are leaving it up to them.I certainly wouldn't bother putting a 14 into a melee stat, even with your rules.  It's still better to throw all my encounter powers then delay the rest of the combat.  Because attempting to hit with +5 to hit at first level for 1d4+2 damage is kind of dumb.  Against creatures with 16 AC, you only have a 50% chance of hitting for an average of 4 damage.That's the problem with using the core of 4e to do what you want.  The core of 4e assumes EVERYONE is attacking with a stat that is 16+.  The average actually assumes an 18 with + or - 1 being acceptable.And that's at 1st level.  Unless you put a point into strength every time you get a choice for leveling, any attacks you make with strength fall farther and father behind.The math is so well balanced that anything more than a point or two off the average and you might as well not bother.  That's why Druids and Avengers in the PHB2 make melee attacks using their Wisdom.  Of course, only some of their attacks could really be considered "magical", so how do you deal with these classes?  Wardens get magical attacks that use their strength to attack, making them focus in strength with no disadvantage.I actually think it would be easier to house rule 3e to do what you want than to force 4e to go there.  It was a project I was briefly working on before 4e came out.  I figure you could use the Bo9S as a template.  Allow only Bo9S classes and caster classes.  That pretty much gives you the "core" of 4e while encouraging the feel you want.Unless you mean something different by "core".  Do you mean the math behind all the monsters and players?  In which case, I propose a quick patch to 3e to act more like it:-Remove BAB, Save Bonuses and Skill Ranks as a mechanic, give everyone half their level to AC, Attacks and Skills, and Saves.-Let them choose trained skills(their number of skill ranks divided by 4, can only choose class skills)-Remove stat enhancers, enhancement bonuses on shields, and all items that give a bonus to AC other than armor.-Change the AC, saves, and attacks of all monsters to the table listed in the 4e DMG based on what you think their role is.  Don't change their hitpoints.-Remove iterative attacks-Allow people to add the better of their Dex or Int modifier to AC in light or medium armor, make the max Dex of all heavy armors 0.  Remove the max Dex of all light armors.-Make taking a 5-ft step a move action instead of freeAnd there you have an entire game that lacks at will attacks, has the core of 4e, but still has powerful encounter based powers for spellcasters and melee types without heavily favoring one.  It requires a bit of work, but I think it actually could be a pretty cool hybrid.</blockquote>

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