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At-will class powers ruining my archetypes
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<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 4690049" data-attributes="member: 14506"><p>Absolutely. Break it before the players do. Surprise me now before they surprise me later.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Some very excellent analysis. Thanks!</p><p>Yes, with the assumption that those two characters hit every time they blast through the 5 kobolds. Add two more characters and the 50% to hit assumption and you get to where you want to be. Four characters killing 5 kobolds quickly. This is an awesome realization, perhaps fiddling with the HP and other things to lessen the grind is not necessary when implementing this.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I would say you can swap out which ever encounter powers you want. I would also so that you can select any encounter powers you want too. So you are not limited to taking former at-will powers as encounter powers in your two at-will slots.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As of right now I am inclined to simply make it a bonus encounter power from your class.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Give them the bonus encounter power from another class. Half-elves kind of suck anyway so giving them an encounter instead of encounter as a daily will boost 'em up.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is fair, 2d6 for the dragon breath</p><p></p><p>Lets see going through the races:</p><p>Dragonborn - breath weapon (boosted to 2d6)</p><p>Dwarf - wtf???</p><p>Eladrin - fey step (still balanced)</p><p>Elf - re-roll attack (still balanced)</p><p>Half-elf - encounter from another class</p><p>Halfling - force enemy to re-roll attack (still balanced)</p><p>Human - encounter power from own class</p><p>Tiefling - hit me I hit you back better (boosted to +2 to hit and charisma to damage)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Hell no. I mentioned this several times through the thread.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I am fretting over these a bit but by my rule they would be encounter powers. There are 5 in the PHB, perhaps these 5 powers can become encounter powers without too much detriment. I have never actually seen them in play so I don't know. Here they are for reference:</p><p></p><p>Great Leap level 2</p><p>Effect: Make a high jump or a long jump. Determine the DC</p><p>of the Athletics check as though you had a running start.</p><p>The distance you jump can exceed your speed.</p><p></p><p>Fleeting Ghost level 2</p><p>Effect: You can move your speed and make a Stealth check.</p><p>You do not take the normal penalty from movement on</p><p>this check.</p><p></p><p>Chameleon level 6</p><p>Effect: Make a Stealth check. Until the end of your next</p><p>turn, you remain hidden if a creature that has a clear line</p><p>of sight to you does not beat your check result with its Perception</p><p>check. If at the end of your turn you do not have</p><p>cover or concealment against a creature, that creature</p><p>automatically notices you.</p><p></p><p>Nimble Climb level 6</p><p>Effect: Make an Athletics check to climb a surface. You can</p><p>move at your full speed during this climb.</p><p></p><p>Shadow Stride level 10</p><p>Effect: You must be hiding to use this power. You can move</p><p>your speed. At the end of that movement, if you have</p><p>cover, you can make a Stealth check with no penalty for</p><p>moving. If you make the Stealth check, you stay hidden</p><p>during your movement.</p><p></p><p>They could possibly be changed to feats, they seem very feat like to me anyway. In fact Nimble Climb is duplicated as a feat called Sure Climber. It appears that these at-will were just thrown into the rogues list because they have so many to choose from anyway.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It looks like their are only two that need to be worried about - Arcane Initiate and Pact Initiate. If the Warlock retains the class feature to shoot 1d10 EBs at-will then the pact initiate is not a problem. If that is not the case then the feat could give them a pact boon over their choice. </p><p></p><p>The wizard one would need changing. Perhaps give them the cantrips as encounter powers instead.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It really seems no different that the standard rules, except that they can nova for +2 rounds than their level would indicate.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed. By that level they will likely fire off their big guns first and then switch down to their weaker effects when needed. And this seems fine to me. Every power should not be as useful by that level. In 3e it would be equivalent of low level spells not packing the same punch as the upper level ones.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't feel that the wizard should be expected to do 1d6+INT every round. If you expected your character to do that much or more you can easily fix that. Take a couple of feats that buff up your character, such as weapon training and weapon focus and get a decent magic weapon. You can contribute with the right character in the form of your basic attacks. I just feel like it should not be necessary for a wizard to contribute with basic attacks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 4690049, member: 14506"] Absolutely. Break it before the players do. Surprise me now before they surprise me later. Some very excellent analysis. Thanks! Yes, with the assumption that those two characters hit every time they blast through the 5 kobolds. Add two more characters and the 50% to hit assumption and you get to where you want to be. Four characters killing 5 kobolds quickly. This is an awesome realization, perhaps fiddling with the HP and other things to lessen the grind is not necessary when implementing this. I would say you can swap out which ever encounter powers you want. I would also so that you can select any encounter powers you want too. So you are not limited to taking former at-will powers as encounter powers in your two at-will slots. As of right now I am inclined to simply make it a bonus encounter power from your class. Give them the bonus encounter power from another class. Half-elves kind of suck anyway so giving them an encounter instead of encounter as a daily will boost 'em up. This is fair, 2d6 for the dragon breath Lets see going through the races: Dragonborn - breath weapon (boosted to 2d6) Dwarf - wtf??? Eladrin - fey step (still balanced) Elf - re-roll attack (still balanced) Half-elf - encounter from another class Halfling - force enemy to re-roll attack (still balanced) Human - encounter power from own class Tiefling - hit me I hit you back better (boosted to +2 to hit and charisma to damage) Hell no. I mentioned this several times through the thread. I am fretting over these a bit but by my rule they would be encounter powers. There are 5 in the PHB, perhaps these 5 powers can become encounter powers without too much detriment. I have never actually seen them in play so I don't know. Here they are for reference: Great Leap level 2 Effect: Make a high jump or a long jump. Determine the DC of the Athletics check as though you had a running start. The distance you jump can exceed your speed. Fleeting Ghost level 2 Effect: You can move your speed and make a Stealth check. You do not take the normal penalty from movement on this check. Chameleon level 6 Effect: Make a Stealth check. Until the end of your next turn, you remain hidden if a creature that has a clear line of sight to you does not beat your check result with its Perception check. If at the end of your turn you do not have cover or concealment against a creature, that creature automatically notices you. Nimble Climb level 6 Effect: Make an Athletics check to climb a surface. You can move at your full speed during this climb. Shadow Stride level 10 Effect: You must be hiding to use this power. You can move your speed. At the end of that movement, if you have cover, you can make a Stealth check with no penalty for moving. If you make the Stealth check, you stay hidden during your movement. They could possibly be changed to feats, they seem very feat like to me anyway. In fact Nimble Climb is duplicated as a feat called Sure Climber. It appears that these at-will were just thrown into the rogues list because they have so many to choose from anyway. It looks like their are only two that need to be worried about - Arcane Initiate and Pact Initiate. If the Warlock retains the class feature to shoot 1d10 EBs at-will then the pact initiate is not a problem. If that is not the case then the feat could give them a pact boon over their choice. The wizard one would need changing. Perhaps give them the cantrips as encounter powers instead. It really seems no different that the standard rules, except that they can nova for +2 rounds than their level would indicate. Agreed. By that level they will likely fire off their big guns first and then switch down to their weaker effects when needed. And this seems fine to me. Every power should not be as useful by that level. In 3e it would be equivalent of low level spells not packing the same punch as the upper level ones. I don't feel that the wizard should be expected to do 1d6+INT every round. If you expected your character to do that much or more you can easily fix that. Take a couple of feats that buff up your character, such as weapon training and weapon focus and get a decent magic weapon. You can contribute with the right character in the form of your basic attacks. I just feel like it should not be necessary for a wizard to contribute with basic attacks. [/QUOTE]
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