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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zustiur" data-source="post: 4694228" data-attributes="member: 1544">Eventually. My preference is to have even less encounter powers (at low level) than Sadrik was suggesting... Yes, we're trying to restore the previous order, using a new core mechanic. Agreed, I never even bought PHB2, so warlocks are out of that equation for me.I cannot argue with that. However I would point out that Rangers gained spells later on, which clearly are not martial equivalents of powers.Again, no argument from me. However, I'd point out that their basic attacks were still used, particularly when precision was required. Yes. Rangers do seem to be the closest match between editions in that regard. That has always been play-group dependent. It will continue to be so.Suits me. As mentioned in my previous post, my groups never skipped level 1. If anything we savoured it. Having to stop and rest frequently is part of how the story works for me. It's that 'scared of the next battle' factor, which is sorely missing at present in my games of 4E. No, because it's tedious, slow, and just plain annoying. Remembering effects is not the issue I was seeking to remove. Repetition is. While I'll concede that some of those you listed are just damage effects (and therefore of little consequence to speed of combat) others are not.Thunderwave: Damage + push. Tide of Iron: I can't find this one, but I'm sure it's not just damage.Move someone? Yes. Do damage? Yes. Move someone and do damage? No. Not for actions you can repeat every round.Using the power 'often enough' is precisely what I'm trying to avoid. Less frequent use = More mystery. More mystery = More interest(ing). More Interest = More fun [for me]. Sure. Again, that's not the issue I'm trying to fix. Changing the calculations every round annoys me, and part of that is based on probability. I prefer bigger effects less often.Take Righteous Brand and Bless as the examples from 4E and 3E respectively.One gives a +2 to hit (assuming 14 str)... for a round, if your one ally can attack that given target during the next round. Which is a benefit of 1 in 10... that is, one in ten times you use righteous brand, it will convert a miss to a hit. So on average, you have to activate the effect 10 times to get any benefit out of it.The other - gives a +1 to hit for the rest of the combat, or even multiple combats if they're close together. So once out of 20 rounds it will convert a miss to a hit... but you only activate it once to achieve that. In fact from 7th level, you can expect it to work twice (assuming a stupendously long combat) from one activation. That is, two converted hits from 40 rounds. But that's not all. It affects your whole party. Taking the 'default' 3E party of 4 characters, that's one converted hit every 5 rounds (instead of 10), after activating the spell once (instead of 10 times). So bless is clearly 'more effective' than Righteous brand. That's fairly obvious. The 'balancing factor' involved is that you only get to cast bless a few times per day.Now that I've shown the different mechanics and their results, imagine if bless wasn't more powerful.Imagine if the choice was between bless and righteous brand, but they both worked out to one converted hit every ten rounds. But where the only difference was that bless was activated once, and righteous brand was activated every round. THIS is the premise we're discussing. This is what I'm aiming for. Both are equally balanced, neither alters the way encounter guidelines work. Neither fundamentally alters the balance of the game. One must be spammed. The other is a once off but lasting effect.I chose the lasting effect.I believe that is what Sadrik is seeking also.I leave it to Sadrik to confirm or deny my understanding of his intentions here, but what I am seeking is summarized below:How do we alter 4E, so that it fits a less wuxia feel, with more single-fire-lasting-effects, and less round by round repetition, without altering the balance of the game and thereby upsetting the core mechanic?I believe it is possible to achieve this by replacing most/all At-Will powers with more powerful encounter powers. What then are the pit falls of this? How should we go about it? Discuss.</blockquote>

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