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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 4695025" data-attributes="member: 14506">Of course a game has to work. But that is not the only factor a game has to be fun too. Most DMs modify what they play I would venture. Others may alter it more than others. Yes, nothing is ever perfect it is good enough. First, effective analysis. 3e - damage was more variable, 4e has more average damage. The example of 10 STR guy attacking with a staff is perfect for accentuating your overall point but it fails to see the role that a player with a 10 STR character is trying to fill with their character. If you have a 10 STR character do you really expect your character to be good at attacking with a staff? I don't think so. The expectation should be that you are not effective at doing that. So where this was effective analysis it was simply pointing out that a 10 STR guy is not very effective at fighting. Assuming the 10 STR guy is a Wizard, the player is mostly a ranged character so can attack with their powers at range if they wanted to focus that way. If they wanted to use a bow (or throw shuriken <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />) or wield a sword the player would create their character with a mid ranged DEX or STR or both. That character concept is so completely sub-par in the current rules. It is almost pointless to even consider one because your at-wills are easily superior and work off your single uni-bloated stat. This is what this whole thread is about.Speaking toward your point, the math is their and I believe it to be much more robust than you do. I don't feel removing at-wills will alter the game in a negative way. This does need testing and I concur with several posters with that sentiment. I will try and get some of my own "math" together and post my findings.</blockquote>

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