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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 4952363" data-attributes="member: 5143">That's not really what I consider &quot;doable&quot;.&nbsp; &quot;Possible&quot;, yes.&nbsp; Very, very specific?&nbsp; Yes.I already know that my DM would smack me upside the head if I tried to stack the damage from the properties of two subtle weapons together.&nbsp; It hadn't even occurred to me that such a thing was possible.&nbsp; Although I see it is probably accurate by the RAW, it certainly doesn't appear RAI to me.&nbsp; The Lasting Frost combo is considered to be universally cheese by my group and my DM is getting close to banning it, since nearly half the group has it.In these situations, I like to compare to the &quot;average&quot;.&nbsp; Which, to me is when someone who knows the rules decently but doesn't have any control over his magic items and hasn't gone for any non-obvious cheese(combos like Lasting Frost and picking non-optimal races or multiclasssing for the feats they provide).&nbsp; Also, going for an even 18/18 split in the two prime stats for your class.&nbsp; Even this level of optimizing is considered pretty much powergaming.&nbsp; But an acceptable level of powergaming.In this situation, the warlock would instead be closer to:Level 20 Tiefling Dark Pact WarlockTo hit 10(lvl)+6(Cha)+4(main implemement)+2 expertise+2 CA+1 prime shot: +25 to hit35% miss chance against 32 ReflexDamage: 5.5 eldritch blast+6 (cha)+7 (curse)+4 main hand implement+4 offhand implement (DiS)+2 weapon focus+ 3.5 (dark reckoner PP)+ 1 empowering shadows=33 damageAlthough, I understand that the level of &quot;average&quot; on the CharOp boards is a lot higher.&nbsp; This is about as powerful a character as anyone in my group would have made(and did make) until 2 of them discovered the CharOp boards and started adding Lasting Frost to all their combos.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 4952363, member: 5143"] That's not really what I consider "doable". "Possible", yes. Very, very specific? Yes. I already know that my DM would smack me upside the head if I tried to stack the damage from the properties of two subtle weapons together. It hadn't even occurred to me that such a thing was possible. Although I see it is probably accurate by the RAW, it certainly doesn't appear RAI to me. The Lasting Frost combo is considered to be universally cheese by my group and my DM is getting close to banning it, since nearly half the group has it. In these situations, I like to compare to the "average". Which, to me is when someone who knows the rules decently but doesn't have any control over his magic items and hasn't gone for any non-obvious cheese(combos like Lasting Frost and picking non-optimal races or multiclasssing for the feats they provide). Also, going for an even 18/18 split in the two prime stats for your class. Even this level of optimizing is considered pretty much powergaming. But an acceptable level of powergaming. In this situation, the warlock would instead be closer to: Level 20 Tiefling Dark Pact Warlock To hit 10(lvl)+6(Cha)+4(main implemement)+2 expertise+2 CA+1 prime shot: +25 to hit 35% miss chance against 32 Reflex Damage: 5.5 eldritch blast+6 (cha)+7 (curse)+4 main hand implement+4 offhand implement (DiS)+2 weapon focus+ 3.5 (dark reckoner PP)+ 1 empowering shadows=33 damage Although, I understand that the level of "average" on the CharOp boards is a lot higher. This is about as powerful a character as anyone in my group would have made(and did make) until 2 of them discovered the CharOp boards and started adding Lasting Frost to all their combos. [/QUOTE]

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