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<blockquote data-quote="Sage Genesis" data-source="post: 6132533" data-attributes="member: 6706099">I agree that some spells should simply be attack rolls. This is not even something unique to 4e - I know 3e and 2e both also had spells that involved attack rolls (rays, touch attacks, etc.). When a spell sprays an area and can be partially dodged, or when it affects the soul and might be held back by an effort of will, that sounds like a saving throw. Aiming a laser is more like an attack. Attacks can also more easily keep things into account like cover and the like. A laser might have trouble hitting a guy behind a chest-high wall, but a Cloudkill engulfing him surely doesn't.More generally, the saving throw mechanic in Next needs a lot of work. Saves are based purely on ability scores but that means red dragons only have a +0 modifier to Wisdom, Intelligence, and Dexterity saving throws. Even with magic resistance, good luck making those saves (illusionists can get up to 22). &quot;Flattened math&quot; and &quot;realistic monsters&quot; have in unison come to mean &quot;red dragons are really easy to Dominate&quot;. That can't possibly be a good thing, if you ask me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sage Genesis, post: 6132533, member: 6706099"] I agree that some spells should simply be attack rolls. This is not even something unique to 4e - I know 3e and 2e both also had spells that involved attack rolls (rays, touch attacks, etc.). When a spell sprays an area and can be partially dodged, or when it affects the soul and might be held back by an effort of will, that sounds like a saving throw. Aiming a laser is more like an attack. Attacks can also more easily keep things into account like cover and the like. A laser might have trouble hitting a guy behind a chest-high wall, but a Cloudkill engulfing him surely doesn't. More generally, the saving throw mechanic in Next needs a lot of work. Saves are based purely on ability scores but that means red dragons only have a +0 modifier to Wisdom, Intelligence, and Dexterity saving throws. Even with magic resistance, good luck making those saves (illusionists can get up to 22). "Flattened math" and "realistic monsters" have in unison come to mean "red dragons are really easy to Dominate". That can't possibly be a good thing, if you ask me. [/QUOTE]

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