Attack of Opportunity resets... when?

[aboyd]

The way I've been running my combat sessions is that at the top of the round, everyone's AOO gets reset. We go through the round, AOO gets used up, and then at the top of the next round, it resets again. This has worked very fine until today's very dangerous combat. There were 2 characters about to die, and at the bottom of the round, the enemy (a deadwood tree from Creatures of Freeport) took an AOO on one player, who lived with 1 hit point. Top of the round, AOO resets, and now another player wants to flee, but since the AOO is reset he felt stuck. He insisted that AOO should be tracked individually, like Swift Actions. So the tree used its AOO and it shouldn't reset until the tree came up in the Initiative order again. This would have been very advantageous to his character's escape, of course, so he really, really wanted our AOO system to change.

Everybody paused, books were opened, and everyone agreed that we couldn't find text that clearly defined it one way or the other. For consistency and ease of tracking, I said that I would stick with a reset at the top of the round (tracking individually seems nightmarish), but also that I would ask you guys for a more informed answer. What do you think?

Also, the Deadwood tree has a Mass Inflict Light Wounds spell. Since a deadwood is undead, can he designate himself in the mass wound spell (maybe deliberately failing his saving throw), and be healed while everyone else takes damage?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

From the SRD (emphasis mine):

"For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on."

Attacks of Opportunity are one such case in which the definition of a "round" is in reference to the character. Otherwise, you end up with weird situations like AoOs "recharging" instantly, as you describe.

The important thing to remember when thinking about situations involving durations or recharge times is that it makes no difference where someone is, in absolute terms, as far as initiative order ... as long as you realize that they must be, in relative terms, in the same position with respect to all other combatants.

In other words, except at the beginning of combat -- or for convenience; e.g., I often offer a summation of the current round's events at "end of round" -- there really doesn't need to be a "top of round" or "bottom of round," and when you are using them, what you're using them for should not be game-mechanical. For a combatant in the game, "one round" is "from the start of my turn to just before the start of my turn."

 

[Vegepygmy]

I reset AoOs at the start of a creature's turn. As Jeff Wilder has pointed out, the "top" or "bottom" of a round is not a very useful metric, IMO.

EDIT: But for what it's worth, I think it's B.S. for your player to request a rule change in the middle of the event. Obviously, you've been playing with that rule for a while now. If he didn't like it, he should have lobbied to change it before the encounter with the deadwood tree. Or he could suck up the AoO and lobby to change the rule afterward. But under no circumstance would I alter the rule right then and there.

 

[frankthedm]

I'd say you handled it right. If that was how you have always hadled AoOs, it is too late for somemone to complain for a change mid combat just because they were on the chopping block.

 

[aboyd]

You must spread some experience points around before giving it to Jeff Wilder again.

You must spread some experience points around before giving it to Vegepygmy again.

You must spread some experience points around before giving it to frankthedm again.

 

[frankthedm]

Yes, deadwood can benefit from the spell. It can elect to fail the save. If a negative energy spell would solely benefit an undead creature, it would be wise to treat the spell as {Harmless} in respect to the undead.

 

[NewJeffCT]

The way I've been running my combat sessions is that at the top of the round, everyone's AOO gets reset. We go through the round, AOO gets used up, and then at the top of the next round, it resets again. This has worked very fine until today's very dangerous combat. There were 2 characters about to die, and at the bottom of the round, the enemy (a deadwood tree from Creatures of Freeport) took an AOO on one player, who lived with 1 hit point. Top of the round, AOO resets, and now another player wants to flee, but since the AOO is reset he felt stuck. He insisted that AOO should be tracked individually, like Swift Actions. So the tree used its AOO and it shouldn't reset until the tree came up in the Initiative order again. This would have been very advantageous to his character's escape, of course, so he really, really wanted our AOO system to change.

Everybody paused, books were opened, and everyone agreed that we couldn't find text that clearly defined it one way or the other. For consistency and ease of tracking, I said that I would stick with a reset at the top of the round (tracking individually seems nightmarish), but also that I would ask you guys for a more informed answer. What do you think?

Also, the Deadwood tree has a Mass Inflict Light Wounds spell. Since a deadwood is undead, can he designate himself in the mass wound spell (maybe deliberately failing his saving throw), and be healed while everyone else takes damage?

We've always played that AoOs reset on each person's turn in the initiative. I think it's a bit cheesy for your player to suddenly want a change now that his PC was in jeopardy. However, couldn't the player down to 1 hit point do a full withdraw to avoid the AoO as it is?

I would also say that the tree could do a Mass Inflict and heal itself while harming others.

 

[aboyd]

However, couldn't the player down to 1 hit point do a full withdraw to avoid the AoO as it is?

Well, the tree has 15' reach. A full withdraw only protects you from AOO in the space you started in. So it wouldn't protect from movement through 3 spaces.

I got that rule right, at least. Right? I hope.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I agree with the others that say it should be on the same point in the initiative order (ie, the creature's next turn), so I disagree with your ruling.

And yes, deadwood tree can target himself with mass inflict.

Far as withdrawing...that's the funny thing about reach. A lot of big monsters I've seen DMs play will try to charge in and attack at the extreme of their reach, but in fact it's often better to move in close. Especially if the other guy can just 5 ft step into range on his turn anyway. By moving in a little closer than you need to, you prevent the enemy from easily retreating if injured. Conversely, a player without reach advantage really shouldn't step deep into threatened area without expecting to have no troubles surviving toe-to-toe. Otherwise, they find themselves in your player's position.

Of course, as an undead, I'm sure the tree was incable of much thought, but for future tactical reference.

 

[the Jester]

I always ran it that AoOs reset at the start of a creature's turn. However, I agree with the call you made; you had been playing with the recharge at the top of the round system, and I don't believe in changing the rules mid-encounter.

As to the tree, yes, it can target itself as well as everyone else.