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Attack with shrink items/weapon
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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 6018754" data-attributes="member: 6669384"><p>I'm going to play "Rules-Ogre DM" for a moment with your post. Please don't take it personally.</p><p></p><p>First, there are no rules for assigning damage done by falling object, at least not that I'm aware of. So dropping something heavy on an opponent is a gray area, at best.</p><p></p><p>Second, you can't even make an attack roll with <em>Mage Hand</em> to target the opponent. You'll miss, or glance off harmlessly, pretty much by definition.</p><p></p><p>Third, you can't use <em>Mage Hand</em> on magic items. The spell specifically precludes it. You can't even begin to pick them up.</p><p></p><p>And that was just addressing the first sentence of your post.</p><p></p><p>As a general thing, trying to reproduce fictional characters in an RPG (any RPG) is always problematic. The fictional character always survives, and with anime, they usually survive in style. Maybe that's what draws us to them (no pun intended). Their RPG counterparts don't come with a script writer, so style and success are never guaranteed.</p><p></p><p>Functionally, a blade that extends at the speed of light is pretty much the same as any ranged spell or other attack. The rest is just "special effect". So work with your non-rules-ogre DM on that.</p><p></p><p>The idea of using <em>Shrink Item</em> on ballista bolts or something similar to turn them into arrows isn't new. Have you looked at the damage a Ballista actually does? Not that impressive, over all.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore (back in rules-ogre mode), issuing the command word to unshrink the item while it's in flight either calls for two people, or you'd need some way to fire off an attack and issue the command word (same as activating a magic item) all in the same round.</p><p></p><p>To unshrink it after it's hit is a different problem. The rules don't say what happens if there's no room for an item to expand back to full size when that spell ends or is terminated. The closest thing in there is the <em>Enlarge Person</em> spell, and it specifically says that if there isn't room to grow, you don't. </p><p></p><p>You could fire arrows through a <em>Dispelling Screen</em> spell, I suppose, but now you're using several spells in order to do damage that's less than other spells of similar levels. Just looking at magical bang for the buck, it's not really a repaying proposition.</p><p></p><p>Now the Magic Item Compendium does have a weapon property that can allow a reach weapon, such as a spear, to change size/reach as a swift action, but that doesn't include any rules for expanding it into/through someone. I'd presume that it does normal damage.</p><p></p><p>As for the "flail like weapon" with alchemical mixtures in it: Look at Cleric's Bullets, and similar items. There are arrows and other ammunition made to hold things like Holy Water and/or Alchemical Fire, and break upon impact.</p><p></p><p>On <em>Shrink Item</em>, talk to your DM first and find out what his ruling is for ending that spell in a place where the item doesn't have room to expand fully. Does it expand anyway, possibly breaking the constraining material? Does it remain shrunken until it can expand?</p><p></p><p>(Note that the latter form gives you a way to effectively make the spell duration indefinite. Just keep the tiny form in a jar or other container until needed. We use metal pipes with screw caps in our game.)</p><p></p><p>So yes, these ideas have been discussed many times. They play on rules that aren't there, or else go directly against the rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 6018754, member: 6669384"] I'm going to play "Rules-Ogre DM" for a moment with your post. Please don't take it personally. First, there are no rules for assigning damage done by falling object, at least not that I'm aware of. So dropping something heavy on an opponent is a gray area, at best. Second, you can't even make an attack roll with [I]Mage Hand[/I] to target the opponent. You'll miss, or glance off harmlessly, pretty much by definition. Third, you can't use [I]Mage Hand[/I] on magic items. The spell specifically precludes it. You can't even begin to pick them up. And that was just addressing the first sentence of your post. As a general thing, trying to reproduce fictional characters in an RPG (any RPG) is always problematic. The fictional character always survives, and with anime, they usually survive in style. Maybe that's what draws us to them (no pun intended). Their RPG counterparts don't come with a script writer, so style and success are never guaranteed. Functionally, a blade that extends at the speed of light is pretty much the same as any ranged spell or other attack. The rest is just "special effect". So work with your non-rules-ogre DM on that. The idea of using [I]Shrink Item[/I] on ballista bolts or something similar to turn them into arrows isn't new. Have you looked at the damage a Ballista actually does? Not that impressive, over all. Furthermore (back in rules-ogre mode), issuing the command word to unshrink the item while it's in flight either calls for two people, or you'd need some way to fire off an attack and issue the command word (same as activating a magic item) all in the same round. To unshrink it after it's hit is a different problem. The rules don't say what happens if there's no room for an item to expand back to full size when that spell ends or is terminated. The closest thing in there is the [I]Enlarge Person[/I] spell, and it specifically says that if there isn't room to grow, you don't. You could fire arrows through a [I]Dispelling Screen[/I] spell, I suppose, but now you're using several spells in order to do damage that's less than other spells of similar levels. Just looking at magical bang for the buck, it's not really a repaying proposition. Now the Magic Item Compendium does have a weapon property that can allow a reach weapon, such as a spear, to change size/reach as a swift action, but that doesn't include any rules for expanding it into/through someone. I'd presume that it does normal damage. As for the "flail like weapon" with alchemical mixtures in it: Look at Cleric's Bullets, and similar items. There are arrows and other ammunition made to hold things like Holy Water and/or Alchemical Fire, and break upon impact. On [I]Shrink Item[/I], talk to your DM first and find out what his ruling is for ending that spell in a place where the item doesn't have room to expand fully. Does it expand anyway, possibly breaking the constraining material? Does it remain shrunken until it can expand? (Note that the latter form gives you a way to effectively make the spell duration indefinite. Just keep the tiny form in a jar or other container until needed. We use metal pipes with screw caps in our game.) So yes, these ideas have been discussed many times. They play on rules that aren't there, or else go directly against the rules. [/QUOTE]
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