Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Attacking defenseless NPCs
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7626050" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>D&D has always had a hard transition into combat from other play. And, D&D has always had a hard line in detail between combat and other play. Because of this, it makes it difficult to do things that are very near or even astride that line, like the situation in the OP. There will always be many that say that since you've touched on the combat pillar, the hard transition must be accomplished, else you're devaluing portions of the game, or violating parity between the PCs and the hordes of DM controlled NPCs operating in the DM controlled environment (an argument I find silly, as you might could tell, although I once was a vocal proponent of it).</p><p></p><p>In this case, I think relying on the 5e core play loop offers insight, much as [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] and others have mentioned. The DM narrates a scene, players declare actions, DM determines success (often via mechanics), DM narrate results, repeat. This loop functions both in and out of combat -- it's universal to the entire game. In combat, it's more structured and the DM has more tools, but no one could say that the DM couldn't make a ruling for an outcome in combat, so let's go with that angle. Here, the goal and approach are clear, and you, as DM, are free to determine if the action is successful or not via whichever resolution mechanic you choose to use. The combat mechanics are there, very details, and could be used, but they are not required to be used to resolve a character action. You could modify them to suit your needs, and that's within the rules of the game.</p><p></p><p>Now, practically, I'd be leery of letting this situation be an easy one. You might have elided the details prior, but I wouldn't let such a situation occur without having it embedded in a larger series of challenges, either to set up this situation, or using this situation as an obstacle in a larger challenge. At lower levels, I'd make this the result of an extended set of challenges, or the penultimate part, because it's a large challenge to a lower level character. At higher level, I'd have this as a feeder into the primary challenge -- something that could make later obstacles harder or easier depending on the result. In this, I like frameworks that loosely resemble skill challenges, but not necessarily that rigorously defined. More a moving of the fiction in directions that require new choices, with failure occurring in obvious places rather than at a certain number of die rolls. </p><p></p><p>Regardless of the exact structure, I might pick either an ability check or an attack roll to decide the guard's fate, depending on the time of day, weather, remaining pizza, amount of beer in my mug... doesn't really matter to me. Attack rolls are really just special ability checks anyway. I have a mechanic in my game that pits attacks rolls against a DC (not AC) for one of my expanded downtime activities and it works really well (it's for pit fighting for cash, the attack roll is one of three checks made to determine earning level and also how taxing it is -- you could start your next adventure down a few or more hit dice).</p><p></p><p>So, tl;dr -- go for it. I'd make it part of a bigger set of challenges, either as the end goal (low level) or along the way (higher levels), but the core play loop of 5e fully supports this kind of play. I also have little regard for arguments of parity for the DM's NPCs operating in the DM's setting at the DM's desire, so no worries if the orcs can't do this to PCs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7626050, member: 16814"] D&D has always had a hard transition into combat from other play. And, D&D has always had a hard line in detail between combat and other play. Because of this, it makes it difficult to do things that are very near or even astride that line, like the situation in the OP. There will always be many that say that since you've touched on the combat pillar, the hard transition must be accomplished, else you're devaluing portions of the game, or violating parity between the PCs and the hordes of DM controlled NPCs operating in the DM controlled environment (an argument I find silly, as you might could tell, although I once was a vocal proponent of it). In this case, I think relying on the 5e core play loop offers insight, much as [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] and others have mentioned. The DM narrates a scene, players declare actions, DM determines success (often via mechanics), DM narrate results, repeat. This loop functions both in and out of combat -- it's universal to the entire game. In combat, it's more structured and the DM has more tools, but no one could say that the DM couldn't make a ruling for an outcome in combat, so let's go with that angle. Here, the goal and approach are clear, and you, as DM, are free to determine if the action is successful or not via whichever resolution mechanic you choose to use. The combat mechanics are there, very details, and could be used, but they are not required to be used to resolve a character action. You could modify them to suit your needs, and that's within the rules of the game. Now, practically, I'd be leery of letting this situation be an easy one. You might have elided the details prior, but I wouldn't let such a situation occur without having it embedded in a larger series of challenges, either to set up this situation, or using this situation as an obstacle in a larger challenge. At lower levels, I'd make this the result of an extended set of challenges, or the penultimate part, because it's a large challenge to a lower level character. At higher level, I'd have this as a feeder into the primary challenge -- something that could make later obstacles harder or easier depending on the result. In this, I like frameworks that loosely resemble skill challenges, but not necessarily that rigorously defined. More a moving of the fiction in directions that require new choices, with failure occurring in obvious places rather than at a certain number of die rolls. Regardless of the exact structure, I might pick either an ability check or an attack roll to decide the guard's fate, depending on the time of day, weather, remaining pizza, amount of beer in my mug... doesn't really matter to me. Attack rolls are really just special ability checks anyway. I have a mechanic in my game that pits attacks rolls against a DC (not AC) for one of my expanded downtime activities and it works really well (it's for pit fighting for cash, the attack roll is one of three checks made to determine earning level and also how taxing it is -- you could start your next adventure down a few or more hit dice). So, tl;dr -- go for it. I'd make it part of a bigger set of challenges, either as the end goal (low level) or along the way (higher levels), but the core play loop of 5e fully supports this kind of play. I also have little regard for arguments of parity for the DM's NPCs operating in the DM's setting at the DM's desire, so no worries if the orcs can't do this to PCs. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Attacking defenseless NPCs
Top