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Attacking defenseless NPCs
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7626138" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I'm not overlooking house rules at all. I'm assuming house rules exist. However, what I'm equally assuming is that generally the house rules for 'knife to the throat' usually suck either because they come down to pure fiat, which means that they exist as a sort of rail-roading technique for the GM to get the stories that he wants, or else they bypass the games normal assumptions so much that they basically create a new game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The existence of house rules, even in a system that validates Rule Zero and the right of the GM to create house rules on the fly, does not actually contradict my statement. "The rules have no problems because you can always create a house rule..." is such a notorious rebuttal, that it even has a name.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not even remotely equivalent, and no it isn't. I mean, even if the fall was infinitely long, it still wouldn't be an automatic loss in D&D to fall. I suppose you could have some sort of 500' drop into a pool of lava, but even that in general isn't an automatic loss.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1) Every system of D&D I'm familiar of allows players to attack objects, in this case a rope bridge.</p><p>2) Every system of D&D I'm familiar with has some sort of rule that arbitrates attacks on objects and thus describes the chance a robe bridge will break under attack.</p><p>3) Every system of D&D I'm familiar with has some sort of rule that handles falling damage.</p><p>4) Incidentals of the situation like fortune tests for maintain balance on a saying bridge, grabbing on to rope, or climbing the broken bridge have generic fortune tests that can be and generally are applied in such situations. (Even in 1e AD&D, which lacked a generic and universal skill and saving throw system, examples of handling fortune tests like this can be found in published modules.)</p><p></p><p>So no, there isn't really one thing about a fight on a rope bridge that requires actual house rules, and the toolbox that a DM needs to handle fortune tests in that situation is right at their fingertips. Which in fact you seem to admit when you start listing the rules that cover this situation. So no, this isn't remotely similar to the problem of 'called shots' and trying to use the combat system to resolve Fortune at the End situations.</p><p></p><p>And obvious proof of this is no one in this thread needs explaining how the pieces of the rope bridge scenario works in the RAW and asked to judge the situation in the RAW, pretty much everyone in the thread is going to apply the same ideas with slight differences in choices of difficulty or the fortune tests that apply (a saving throw as opposed to a skill check, for example). However, in the case of your "checkmate" houserule, no one in the thread has the slightest idea how it works until you tell us.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7626138, member: 4937"] I'm not overlooking house rules at all. I'm assuming house rules exist. However, what I'm equally assuming is that generally the house rules for 'knife to the throat' usually suck either because they come down to pure fiat, which means that they exist as a sort of rail-roading technique for the GM to get the stories that he wants, or else they bypass the games normal assumptions so much that they basically create a new game. The existence of house rules, even in a system that validates Rule Zero and the right of the GM to create house rules on the fly, does not actually contradict my statement. "The rules have no problems because you can always create a house rule..." is such a notorious rebuttal, that it even has a name. Not even remotely equivalent, and no it isn't. I mean, even if the fall was infinitely long, it still wouldn't be an automatic loss in D&D to fall. I suppose you could have some sort of 500' drop into a pool of lava, but even that in general isn't an automatic loss. 1) Every system of D&D I'm familiar of allows players to attack objects, in this case a rope bridge. 2) Every system of D&D I'm familiar with has some sort of rule that arbitrates attacks on objects and thus describes the chance a robe bridge will break under attack. 3) Every system of D&D I'm familiar with has some sort of rule that handles falling damage. 4) Incidentals of the situation like fortune tests for maintain balance on a saying bridge, grabbing on to rope, or climbing the broken bridge have generic fortune tests that can be and generally are applied in such situations. (Even in 1e AD&D, which lacked a generic and universal skill and saving throw system, examples of handling fortune tests like this can be found in published modules.) So no, there isn't really one thing about a fight on a rope bridge that requires actual house rules, and the toolbox that a DM needs to handle fortune tests in that situation is right at their fingertips. Which in fact you seem to admit when you start listing the rules that cover this situation. So no, this isn't remotely similar to the problem of 'called shots' and trying to use the combat system to resolve Fortune at the End situations. And obvious proof of this is no one in this thread needs explaining how the pieces of the rope bridge scenario works in the RAW and asked to judge the situation in the RAW, pretty much everyone in the thread is going to apply the same ideas with slight differences in choices of difficulty or the fortune tests that apply (a saving throw as opposed to a skill check, for example). However, in the case of your "checkmate" houserule, no one in the thread has the slightest idea how it works until you tell us. [/QUOTE]
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