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Attacking defenseless NPCs
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7626229" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Will wonders ever cease? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>After which you go on to make some perfectly valid criticisms of my attempt to explain the issue.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We're pretty much on the same page here though, because although I didn't make myself as clear as you have here, I was considering the same fictional positioning when I equated attempting to put a knife to the throat of a character, with the common movie scene where two characters are in a grapple, and one is trying to plunge a dagger into some sensitive region of the other (the scene in Saving Private Ryan comes to mind). D&D can model this, but only by assuming that the character losing the struggle is continually losing hit points until the point where, having been reduced to 0 or less hit points, the knife plunges in for the mortal wound. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's what I was trying to say, said perhaps better than I said it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, at least the ones with more than a couple of hit points are. The fiction D&D supports is closer to the scene in Gladiator, where Maximus asks the Praetorian to strike true, and actually thwarts a sword held to the back of his head. Maximus is clearly PC classed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I thought about that as well but decided not to bring it up because it complicates the situation. While you could intimidate a character by threatening them with a sharp object, so s far as I know, no version of D&D allows intimidate to be used to render the target helpless. And as a reasonable rule, the DC to convince a character become helpless shouldn't be far from the DC required convince a character to commit suicide via an intimidation check, and as such I would think it would be prohibitive for all but the most unbalanced situations.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7626229, member: 4937"] Will wonders ever cease? After which you go on to make some perfectly valid criticisms of my attempt to explain the issue. We're pretty much on the same page here though, because although I didn't make myself as clear as you have here, I was considering the same fictional positioning when I equated attempting to put a knife to the throat of a character, with the common movie scene where two characters are in a grapple, and one is trying to plunge a dagger into some sensitive region of the other (the scene in Saving Private Ryan comes to mind). D&D can model this, but only by assuming that the character losing the struggle is continually losing hit points until the point where, having been reduced to 0 or less hit points, the knife plunges in for the mortal wound. That's what I was trying to say, said perhaps better than I said it. Well, at least the ones with more than a couple of hit points are. The fiction D&D supports is closer to the scene in Gladiator, where Maximus asks the Praetorian to strike true, and actually thwarts a sword held to the back of his head. Maximus is clearly PC classed. I thought about that as well but decided not to bring it up because it complicates the situation. While you could intimidate a character by threatening them with a sharp object, so s far as I know, no version of D&D allows intimidate to be used to render the target helpless. And as a reasonable rule, the DC to convince a character become helpless shouldn't be far from the DC required convince a character to commit suicide via an intimidation check, and as such I would think it would be prohibitive for all but the most unbalanced situations. Agreed. [/QUOTE]
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