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Attacking defenseless NPCs
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7627002" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>In 5e, it is. In 3e, there's Rule 0, instead. </p><p>It's a subtle but important difference. In 3e, the DM's ultimate control of the shape of his own game - of deciding what game, and what variations on the game, he's going to run - is acknowledged, up front, in a "get it over with, but stick to it" kind of way. The expectation in the community was clearly RAW, and if you House Ruled (used Rule 0, or even just used a less-popular interpretation), you better stick to those house rules. Once play is joined, the expectation was that the rules were more or less set in stone.</p><p></p><p>In contrast, 5e builds it's acknowledgement of the DM's primacy over the system into /every resolution that takes place in the course of play/. There is no game without the DM, and the DM comes before the rules every time. There's an elegance and an honesty to that is probably the closest modern analog we could get to the quixotic experimentation of the original, given that there's a certain innocence to the TTRPG's very first incarnations that's as impossible to re-capture as that of childhood. </p><p>(And I'm getting /really/ maudlin & nostalgic. </p><p>Apologies.)</p><p></p><p>I think it at least relies on a level of competence and lack of malice (preferably even active, if perhaps, not overt, benevolence) on the part of the DM. The quality of the players is of much lesser concern. </p><p></p><p>But, certainly not perfection. Perfection is often used as a foe of Reason. There's no such thing as perfect balance, so radical imbalance is OK. There's no such thing as a Perfect DM, so jerk DMs are OK. DM's aren't perfect, so their judgment must never be trusted. There's no such thing as a Perfect System, so there's no need to improve upon any existing ones. Etc...</p><p></p><p> Oh.... do we have a touch of Convert's Zeal, here?</p><p></p><p>That's not strictly a dig, either: the capacity to change your own mind is rare & wonderous in the context of an internet forum.</p><p></p><p>Heh. </p><p></p><p>Personally, I'll pitch my tent in either camp. The 1e/5e Way works /really/ well for me when I run games. I thrive in improvisation, running by the seat of your pants, ruling & interpreting off the cuff, I run a lot of my best stuff that way. Also some of my worse when I'm not up for it. Conversely, I love to build a cool character in detail, sometimes excessive detail, and have it actually work as intended when I play it, 3e/4e (& Hero &c) gives me that pretty consistently - and there are times (especially as I've gotten older) when I appreciate running a system that takes care of itself a greater proportion of the time (though, TBH, D&D has rarely been that system). </p><p></p><p> There are bad DMs in the sense of actively malicious, and there are bad DMs in the sense of needing improvement. Nothing can quite /stop/ the former, but a good system can cramp their style, a bit, and it's helpful to the latter if the system makes the job easier in some way.</p><p></p><p></p><p>OK, yes, that's a function of a combat system. But, you might be able to come up with a system that applies a bunch of modifiers and formulae, comes up with a % chance of victory, and just roll that. It would resolve the outcome of an uncertain conflict. It might even, hypothetically, give the same result as playing through a D&D combat every time. And it could be quite fast. (And, hey, doesn't that sound a bit like most non-combat resolution in D&D?)</p><p></p><p>But it wouldn't be a very engaging sub-system, wouldn't involve all the players, and probably wouldn't make for a great experience as part of an RPG.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Combat is also an arena where players can define/display their characters, make interesting/important choices for them, and where those characters can advance their goals, grapple figuratively with their demons (as well as literally with their enemies), address interpersonal conflicts, and even undergo a bit of character development now and then (and not just by leveling).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7627002, member: 996"] In 5e, it is. In 3e, there's Rule 0, instead. It's a subtle but important difference. In 3e, the DM's ultimate control of the shape of his own game - of deciding what game, and what variations on the game, he's going to run - is acknowledged, up front, in a "get it over with, but stick to it" kind of way. The expectation in the community was clearly RAW, and if you House Ruled (used Rule 0, or even just used a less-popular interpretation), you better stick to those house rules. Once play is joined, the expectation was that the rules were more or less set in stone. In contrast, 5e builds it's acknowledgement of the DM's primacy over the system into /every resolution that takes place in the course of play/. There is no game without the DM, and the DM comes before the rules every time. There's an elegance and an honesty to that is probably the closest modern analog we could get to the quixotic experimentation of the original, given that there's a certain innocence to the TTRPG's very first incarnations that's as impossible to re-capture as that of childhood. (And I'm getting /really/ maudlin & nostalgic. Apologies.) I think it at least relies on a level of competence and lack of malice (preferably even active, if perhaps, not overt, benevolence) on the part of the DM. The quality of the players is of much lesser concern. But, certainly not perfection. Perfection is often used as a foe of Reason. There's no such thing as perfect balance, so radical imbalance is OK. There's no such thing as a Perfect DM, so jerk DMs are OK. DM's aren't perfect, so their judgment must never be trusted. There's no such thing as a Perfect System, so there's no need to improve upon any existing ones. Etc... Oh.... do we have a touch of Convert's Zeal, here? That's not strictly a dig, either: the capacity to change your own mind is rare & wonderous in the context of an internet forum. Heh. Personally, I'll pitch my tent in either camp. The 1e/5e Way works /really/ well for me when I run games. I thrive in improvisation, running by the seat of your pants, ruling & interpreting off the cuff, I run a lot of my best stuff that way. Also some of my worse when I'm not up for it. Conversely, I love to build a cool character in detail, sometimes excessive detail, and have it actually work as intended when I play it, 3e/4e (& Hero &c) gives me that pretty consistently - and there are times (especially as I've gotten older) when I appreciate running a system that takes care of itself a greater proportion of the time (though, TBH, D&D has rarely been that system). There are bad DMs in the sense of actively malicious, and there are bad DMs in the sense of needing improvement. Nothing can quite /stop/ the former, but a good system can cramp their style, a bit, and it's helpful to the latter if the system makes the job easier in some way. OK, yes, that's a function of a combat system. But, you might be able to come up with a system that applies a bunch of modifiers and formulae, comes up with a % chance of victory, and just roll that. It would resolve the outcome of an uncertain conflict. It might even, hypothetically, give the same result as playing through a D&D combat every time. And it could be quite fast. (And, hey, doesn't that sound a bit like most non-combat resolution in D&D?) But it wouldn't be a very engaging sub-system, wouldn't involve all the players, and probably wouldn't make for a great experience as part of an RPG. Combat is also an arena where players can define/display their characters, make interesting/important choices for them, and where those characters can advance their goals, grapple figuratively with their demons (as well as literally with their enemies), address interpersonal conflicts, and even undergo a bit of character development now and then (and not just by leveling). [/QUOTE]
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