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<blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 6415950" data-attributes="member: 59057">I believe, there is an advantage in 5e rules. The DM and the Player can just talk about the situation an decide if one can hide or not.It is just that easy.I mean, in a real game the DM decides where exactly all the tree trunks or furniture pieces are. And sometimes they suddenly appear, when a player asks for them. Only if a battlemap is drawn, you might believe everything is set in stone. But can you really decide if something is big enough to hide behind, or a bush is dense enough, just from the picture?I guess not.In nearly every situation, the dialogue works like that:Player: &quot;Is the bush dense enough so that I can hide behind it? And maybe get closer to the enemy?&quot;DM: &quot;sure, at least your character believes so. Roll your dexterity check&quot;Player rolls: &quot;1&quot; (failed the passive perception by more than 5)DM: You can hide behind the bush, but you make some noise, when you were trying to get a look at the Orc. He looks directly into your eyes. Roll initative.Or:Player rolls: &quot;8&quot; (failed the passive perception by 5 or less)DM: &quot;You make some noise, crawling through the bushes and the Orc is looking around into your general direction.&quot;Player: &quot;I stop moving, trying to make no more noises&quot;Next round: Orc makes a disadvantaged wisdom check against your dexterity.Orc rolls a 20 and a 5DM: &quot;For a moment the Orc looks directly at you, but after the longest second of your life, he looks away again at the fire where his meal is cooking&quot;Or:Player rolls a &quot;13&quot; (beating the Orcs passive perception)DM: &quot;You crawl silently to the edge of the clearing, hiding behind the bush. You can observe the Orc looking for his meal cooking i the fireplace&quot;So all of that works in a noncombat scenario, or at the beginning of combat. During combat I would rule out ducking behind a bush and reappearing to shoot with advantage. This may work once, when the orc is surprised, but next time I would at least give the PC disadvantage. There is always the sanity check. If you as a DM use such a tactic against the PC, would they have a good time? Such &quot;exploits&quot; are usually not liked by the players. During a goblin ambush I would at least have them move between two shots, so that their location is not obvious. A halfling constantly ducking behind his human friend is also annoying. This trick should work once well. After that, the tactic becomes obvious and stealth checks are made with disadvantage, or maybe better, the passive erception raises by 5 everytime you try to fool the same person.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="UngeheuerLich, post: 6415950, member: 59057"] I believe, there is an advantage in 5e rules. The DM and the Player can just talk about the situation an decide if one can hide or not. It is just that easy. I mean, in a real game the DM decides where exactly all the tree trunks or furniture pieces are. And sometimes they suddenly appear, when a player asks for them. Only if a battlemap is drawn, you might believe everything is set in stone. But can you really decide if something is big enough to hide behind, or a bush is dense enough, just from the picture? I guess not. In nearly every situation, the dialogue works like that: Player: "Is the bush dense enough so that I can hide behind it? And maybe get closer to the enemy?" DM: "sure, at least your character believes so. Roll your dexterity check" Player rolls: "1" (failed the passive perception by more than 5) DM: You can hide behind the bush, but you make some noise, when you were trying to get a look at the Orc. He looks directly into your eyes. Roll initative. Or: Player rolls: "8" (failed the passive perception by 5 or less) DM: "You make some noise, crawling through the bushes and the Orc is looking around into your general direction." Player: "I stop moving, trying to make no more noises" Next round: Orc makes a disadvantaged wisdom check against your dexterity. Orc rolls a 20 and a 5 DM: "For a moment the Orc looks directly at you, but after the longest second of your life, he looks away again at the fire where his meal is cooking" Or: Player rolls a "13" (beating the Orcs passive perception) DM: "You crawl silently to the edge of the clearing, hiding behind the bush. You can observe the Orc looking for his meal cooking i the fireplace" So all of that works in a noncombat scenario, or at the beginning of combat. During combat I would rule out ducking behind a bush and reappearing to shoot with advantage. This may work once, when the orc is surprised, but next time I would at least give the PC disadvantage. There is always the sanity check. If you as a DM use such a tactic against the PC, would they have a good time? Such "exploits" are usually not liked by the players. During a goblin ambush I would at least have them move between two shots, so that their location is not obvious. A halfling constantly ducking behind his human friend is also annoying. This trick should work once well. After that, the tactic becomes obvious and stealth checks are made with disadvantage, or maybe better, the passive erception raises by 5 everytime you try to fool the same person. [/QUOTE]

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