Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Rod Staffwand" data-source="post: 6416352" data-attributes="member: 6776279">The 5e hiding rules are just horribly written. I get the &quot;rulings over rules&quot; ethos and agree with it, but the hiding rules are such a jumble of vague concepts and poorly worded corner-cases and inconsistent language that they do next to nothing to help a DM or player make a ruling.The primary issue is that they equate visibility with awareness, which common sense says is not the same thing. Another issue is that they don't do enough to delineate the differences between:1. Your presence being completely unknown to your enemies.2. Your presence being known, but your location being unknown.3. Your presence and general location being known, but your specific location being unknown or obscured from view.&quot;You can't hide from a creature that can see you...&quot; This is a poor sentence. A much more effective sentence would have been: &quot;You can't hide from a creature that sees you.&quot; This seems to be the intent. Obviously you can hide from a creature that can see you--but hasn't yet. If a creature has noticed you must lose line of sight before attempting to hide. Extending this means that, if you are hidden, you can remain so from creatures that can potentially see you (but haven't yet).The rules go on to explore various caveats, such as being seen or making noise. The effects of these are left to the DM to determine, especially in regards to combat. You might remain hidden to move up to backstab an enemy, but showing yourself openly would cause you to be seen.So the rules mostly make sense, but the poor writing hides them behind a wall of confusion.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rod Staffwand, post: 6416352, member: 6776279"] The 5e hiding rules are just horribly written. I get the "rulings over rules" ethos and agree with it, but the hiding rules are such a jumble of vague concepts and poorly worded corner-cases and inconsistent language that they do next to nothing to help a DM or player make a ruling. The primary issue is that they equate visibility with awareness, which common sense says is not the same thing. Another issue is that they don't do enough to delineate the differences between: 1. Your presence being completely unknown to your enemies. 2. Your presence being known, but your location being unknown. 3. Your presence and general location being known, but your specific location being unknown or obscured from view. "You can't hide from a creature that can see you..." This is a poor sentence. A much more effective sentence would have been: "You can't hide from a creature that sees you." This seems to be the intent. Obviously you can hide from a creature that can see you--but hasn't yet. If a creature has noticed you must lose line of sight before attempting to hide. Extending this means that, if you are hidden, you can remain so from creatures that can potentially see you (but haven't yet). The rules go on to explore various caveats, such as being seen or making noise. The effects of these are left to the DM to determine, especially in regards to combat. You might remain hidden to move up to backstab an enemy, but showing yourself openly would cause you to be seen. So the rules mostly make sense, but the poor writing hides them behind a wall of confusion. [/QUOTE]

Verification