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<blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 4949395" data-attributes="member: 71571">When attacking an enemy you cannot see.&nbsp; If you're not doing that (and madly swinging paranoid doesn't count) then this doesn't exactly apply?&nbsp; Using the rules that are there for when you're fighting stealth'd enemies doesn't apply to non-stealth situations, like 'I wanna get on the other side of these bars.'You can't go 'technically the bag o' rats rule doesn't apply.'&nbsp; Bag o' rats is the&nbsp; 'You don't get to &quot;technically&quot; do abusive stuff' rule.&nbsp; It sort of protects itself that way.&nbsp; In fact, it goes on to mention other situations where you might decide where technically the players can do something, but you don't have to allow rediculousness.&nbsp; Regardless, even then, Rule 0.&nbsp; You need to have the DM rule 0 your ability to teleport using an attack power, period.&nbsp; If the DM doesn't like it, then that's that.Only if you're guessing that a specific enemy happens to have chosen that square.&nbsp; No enemy, no guessing which square that enemy is in.&nbsp; You don't get to use 'How to target an unseen foe' to mean 'you can target nothing with impunity.'&nbsp; That's -not- what the rules says, nor does it even intend to be used in that manner.However, one thing to notice-&nbsp; Rule 0 -does- allow the DM to allow it if it's cool.&nbsp; So if you're using it to teleport across a ravine to even terrain, sure, go for it.&nbsp; If you're using it to teleport across iron bars, that -same- DM can go 'No, the bars will ground out the lightning.'It doesn't matter if the rules -technically- would allow both or forbid both.&nbsp; This is -why- you have a DM, so he can make judgement calls like this in case you want to 'bend the rules.'But first, you must recognize you're bending those rules, because you are -not- entitled to do this, and the DM has -every- reason to say No, without depriving you of what the 'rules allow you.'</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DracoSuave, post: 4949395, member: 71571"] When attacking an enemy you cannot see. If you're not doing that (and madly swinging paranoid doesn't count) then this doesn't exactly apply? Using the rules that are there for when you're fighting stealth'd enemies doesn't apply to non-stealth situations, like 'I wanna get on the other side of these bars.' You can't go 'technically the bag o' rats rule doesn't apply.' Bag o' rats is the 'You don't get to "technically" do abusive stuff' rule. It sort of protects itself that way. In fact, it goes on to mention other situations where you might decide where technically the players can do something, but you don't have to allow rediculousness. Regardless, even then, Rule 0. You need to have the DM rule 0 your ability to teleport using an attack power, period. If the DM doesn't like it, then that's that. Only if you're guessing that a specific enemy happens to have chosen that square. No enemy, no guessing which square that enemy is in. You don't get to use 'How to target an unseen foe' to mean 'you can target nothing with impunity.' That's -not- what the rules says, nor does it even intend to be used in that manner. However, one thing to notice- Rule 0 -does- allow the DM to allow it if it's cool. So if you're using it to teleport across a ravine to even terrain, sure, go for it. If you're using it to teleport across iron bars, that -same- DM can go 'No, the bars will ground out the lightning.' It doesn't matter if the rules -technically- would allow both or forbid both. This is -why- you have a DM, so he can make judgement calls like this in case you want to 'bend the rules.' But first, you must recognize you're bending those rules, because you are -not- entitled to do this, and the DM has -every- reason to say No, without depriving you of what the 'rules allow you.' [/QUOTE]

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