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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 4958388" data-attributes="member: 53980">That's irrelevant.  Exceptions to the rule do not define that rule.  It's like trying to argue that because Sure Strike gets a +2 to attack, all powers should get +2 to attack (obviously false).  While some effects may require a target, the general rule defining effects quite notably excludes that requirement.  Hence, unless the power itself defines the effect as requiring a target (Shield of Faith), the effect does not require a target.You'd be right except that, as I've pointed out several times, according to page 272 of the PHB you can target a square.  As such, you have a something to target, even if it isn't a "target" in terms of hit/miss.  You still trigger the effect because you have something to target for the effect (an empty square). To put it in simpler terms, look at the cleric's Turn Undead power:  Assume the cleric is uncertain whether the creatures before him are undead (he's totally flubbed his Religion check).  Let's also assume that there are no undead in the area (but only the DM knows this).  Also, this cleric has a special (non-existent AFAIK) Pelor feat that adds to his Turn Undead the Effect: Your burst creates a zone that sheds bright light until the end of the encounter.The cleric decides to use Turn Undead.  The cleric creates a close burst 2.  He targets the squares around him, legally.Unfortunately, there are no undead within the burst, and the targets of the power need to be undead.As such, there is no legal target to determine hit/miss and we are forced to skip that step.However, the effect is exempt from the "target" requirement, so the zone of light still occurs.I think your confusion stems from the fact that target is used both as a verb and a noun.  In the case on PHB page 272, we are looking at a verb (you can target a square).  That doesn't change the noun present in the power (ie, Target: one creature).  However, as stated on PHB2 page 219, effects normally function irrespective of (noun) target.  Only hit/miss are influenced by the noun.  If you are lacking a target (noun) to target (verb) then you skip hit/miss resolution (which requires a noun target).  You move onto the effect resolution which has the lesser requirement that the the power target (verb) something (a square, for example).Effects only need to target as a verb (because otherwise the point of origin would be undefined) because they aren't defined as requiring a target (noun) on page 219 of the PHB2.  For effect targeting, all you need is a space, as explained on PHB page 272.I can find no rule that states that without a (noun) target, an effect will not occur.  PHB2 page 219 indicates otherwise.</blockquote>

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