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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nichwee" data-source="post: 4959179" data-attributes="member: 84242">The following is the last paragraph on Page 272 PHB : "When you use a melee attack or a ranged attack, you can target a square instead of an enemy. This tactic is useful when an enemy has total concealment (page 281) and you have to guess its location."This has the line "When you use a melee attack or a ranged attack, you can target a square instead of an enemy." Note the full stop. This is a stand alone line. We then get more info on a related point. "This tactic is useful ..." not limited to, but useful for.Thus target requirements of any melee or range power are satisfied by the existance of squares of empty space. As such we can satisfy the target line fo the power out-of-combat, so the effects are good to go, as no hit/miss is required.Onto the point of "thinking an invisable creature may be about" being so much different than "knowing one isn't". What happens if the players dealt with a monster that escaped under invis 2 encounters ago. Any reason they shouldn't assume he is still about, following them and passing info to the enemy? So does "There might be that guy still around from X days ago" count differently than "No one around I'm sure of it"? What about "There's always an invisable killer trying to get me, I'm just that important"?Yes I know those are over the top, but I'm trying to make a point - if the mindset of the character is sooooo important with regards to thinking threats are around that attacks become valid all of a sudden, why can't mental discipline allow the character to generate the correct mental state to trigger effects just by swinging at imagined foes?Also attacking an invisable creature in the wrong square surely doesn't trigger a Miss effect? How can you do lesser damage and slow the creature (for example) if it wasn't even there? What if the Miss effect was "and the target can't benefit from total cover or total concealment until the end of your next turn"? Would the invisable creature suddenly stop being invis just cos you swung (at a square that may be over the wrong side of the room)?This concept, and simply saying you can use the power without an attack at all, also fixes the "Vorpol Doom issue" with using attacks for the effect. A Reliable power is not expended when you miss. But if you don't make the player attack with it, or rule that attacking an empty square isn't a hit or miss situation, then the power is expended - he didn't Miss, he didn't Hit either but he didn't Miss. No effect from Reliable = Daily wasted, unless the Swordmage is attacked in the next 5 minutes. This also encourages a player with Reliable abilities to hunt for an invisable creature with At-Wills/AoE like everyone else which I think is not a bad thing.</blockquote>

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