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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jamesmanhattan" data-source="post: 6115697" data-attributes="member: 75838">I am trying to offer something that can be used on the fly. Those corner cases of debating with Sphinx's and arm wrestling, would be sort of rare. It seems like a DM could make up the DC's for those on the spot. If you use half the Saving Throw bonuses, you get very close to the majority of what you would need, Will to resist being lied to and detect hidden things, Fort to resist being pushed around, Ref to avoid fireballs etc.For the saving throw DCs:Pathfinder and 3.5 contain some extreme numbers, like a DC:30 save for a 25 Hit Die Red Dragon's Breath (that's one of the highest ratio of DC to Challenge Rating there is). By making adjustments to those extreme numbers, some of the extremeness will remain in. An alternative would be to create a table of numbers, but looking up numbers in a table would be more work than the quick on the fly adjustments listed above.Also, that Red Dragon is CR:19, which would probably translate into a Level 21 D&D Next creature, higher than Asmodeus, and Asmodeus has DC:20 on his spells.On Attack Bonuses:A different way you could adjust attack bonuses vs. AC would be to simply take the highest attack bonus listed on the monster stat block and subtract the Challenge Rating from it. The problem is Pathfinder has huge ranges of attack bonuses. A CR:9 creature can vary from +21 for an Air Elemental to +10 for a Spirit Naga. Also that gives the low level monsters very low attack scores, the first playtesters complained when kobolds had a +1 to hit.I recently found out the DC's of Dragons are purposely printed as too low, so that when faced they seem extremely strong for the DC target picked. So when a DM picks a DC 14 dragon to face the party, they are going to feel ultra beat up like it was a DC 16 Dragon.</blockquote>

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