NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5687926" data-attributes="member: 92511">If you're referring to magic-users (mages/wizards, I mean) as the reality warping guys...then I would say a d4 Hit Points, no armor and hardly any useful weapon are quite the restrictions. Whether they offset to/balance against the extent of a paladinic code is up to debate, I suppose.But...to answer your question, Yes! Because you take up a sword in the service of this deity with these tenets and receive (not to mention the mortal hubris of "expect"!) these additional powers to other guys who just "take up the sword", you are supposed to be Dudley Do-Right (if that's what/how the tenets of your god and faith prescribe). And if you [meaning the paladin/character] don't like it, then go be a mercenary or swordsman or soldier....or one of those guys who warp reality. The deity can always pick another champion.I agree. And I do so in my games.As with almost anything else in RAW, if you don't like it...change it! Talk to your DM and work something out or if you are the DM then develop your religions (which your cleric players must adhere to) and make it work/make sense for you.If it's perfectly acceptable for your DM, then I guess it is. But if that's all your cleric is/is doing...from where I'm sitting, that seems to be more on you, as the player (not "you" specifically), than any fault of the system or DM.Just my copper there. No insult intended.--SDOh wait! There's more. I saw the dashy line and just figured it was your sig. hahaha. Apologies...continue.I think you are right here. There are very few archetypes for the "cleric" in the fantasy genre. Elves? Dwarves? Wizards? even Rangers (thanks to Tolkien...well, and Robin Hood, maybe)? We've got that covered. Conan and Fafrd (sp?) took care of the  Barbarian shtick.I, myself, very much liked when 2e changed the "cleric" to "priest". Yes, one might default to modern religions, and that works. But it is more evocative of, say, Fransiscan monks/early Christianity or Rabbinim or the priests of ancient Egypt or even Gaulic Druids than "cleric."For me/my games, I have always adhered to the cleric as a "priest" or "bishop" or "brother" or whatever title you want to ascribe them (and I ascribe plenty). Beign a cleric does not, in my games, mean you are a "fighter who heals".Seems an easy thing to me to alter one's perspective and come up with one's own archetype for the class instead of saying "I'm a 'holy warrior' (as many early editions described). All I do is fight and heal and my god just lets me do that all of the time without doing anything else." The cleric class can have a lot of depth and differing pursuits, dependent on the deity for whom the cleric serves and how developed the religion in the game world is.And make no mistake, the cleric IS a servant as surely as any paladin. The cleric of a CG deity who acts in LE ways is definitely going to get the immortal "smackdown". I'm not aspousing the paladin should and the cleric shouldn't! They are the member of a religious order...and that order needs thought and development in the game world as sure as any paladinic code. That's something for you and/or your DM to work out.The fact the books did not specify that in a listed code of conduct never mattered, for me. It was clearly implied, for me. Don't serve your god the way they want you to, you're not gettin' diddly. That's the class. If you don't like it, not to sound crass but, play something else/a different class.Ok. That's really the end. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />--SD</blockquote>

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