Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
ATTN Piazo: Dungeon mag and Dragon mag CD-roms & the Tasini v NY Times decision
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="seankreynolds" data-source="post: 1392164" data-attributes="member: 3029"><p>I was having internet problems two days ago, so this message I composed couldn't be posted. It repeats some of what some other people have said, but I thought it had some additional info that y'all might find interesting or relevant, so here it is.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Perhaps the buyer is looking at it as a matter of, "If I want magazine X's issues 1-100, do I track down the original print runs for all 100 issues, track down reprints for all 100 issues, or grab the electronic "reprint" on CD-ROM? Which is easiest for the consumer? Uses less paper? Takes up the least amount of space? Has a search function to find the exact article you want instead of waiting for the "index issue" printed every couple of years?</p><p></p><p>If an electronic version of the magazine on CD-ROM is really no different than a paper reprint, why should the authors and artists get any more compensation for that material? Why is it that a company that wants to issue a collection of magazines -- a product that consumers want and would be very handy -- can do so without a peep from the contributors if they just reissue the magazines in paper form (possibly adding a nice set of slipcases, possibly not), but as soon as those magazines are compiled into an electronic format, it's a massive copyright violation?</p><p> This sort of thing leaves the company with four options.</p><p> (1) Rerelease the mags in paper. Very expensive to produce, older issues were hand-typeset and would have to be scanned and made print-ready for modern machines, uses a lot of paper, takes up a lot of space on shelves and in the warehouse, a very niche item, very high price for the consumer (you're basically paying for every issue of the mag, with prices adjusted for inflation ... for the Dragon archive that's $5 times 250 issues = $1,250) which few can afford.</p><p> (2) Rerelease the mags in electronic format. This entails getting the magazines scanned and put on CD. Not too expensive. Small shelf footprint, small cost for the consumer, much more effective as a product.</p><p> (3) As #2, but according to your reasoning (tracking down all the authors), the company should also have to contact every single author/artist that ever created something for the magazine and get their permission to use that material again in what is essentially an electronic reprint. The company has to pay those who demand money or not include their material, and leave out material from contributors who can't be located. This requires editing the scanned files (more work, more expense). Suddenly the electronic version isn't complete, and is therefore less valuable to those interested in buying it. And how are they to know if their favorite article or story from issue #Z is included in the archive? Should a big master list be made of every single thing that's in or not in the magazine compilation, just so the consumer knows exactly what he's getting? More work, more expense ... higher cost to the end consumer.</p><p> (4) Not reprint the product at all.</p><p></p><p>Option 1 is impractical.</p><p>Option 2 is ideal.</p><p>Option 3 is impractical and isn't much of a benefit to the consumer.</p><p>Option 4 is easiest.</p><p></p><p>Because of some contributors complaining (i.e., option 3), WotC had problems making the Dragon CD-ROM. As far as I can tell, that's why there is no Dungeon or Polyhedron CD-ROM (i.e, option 4). Who is hurt? The consumers.</p><p></p><p>{Again, I don't know much about the industry, but as I said earlier, I don't think the writers will be asking for "millions" as some think. They may not even ask for anything. And some of their contracts are probably written so that they <em>can't</em> ask for anything.}</p><p></p><p>Certainly some of the older contracts have WotC/TSR owning everything outright (I ran into this question when I was TSR webmaster and was putting old issues online ... I needed Legal's approval on which article went up based on which ones we owned outright, mainly those written by people on staff at the time). Finding out which contracts apply and don't is another time-consuming (and thus expensive in terms of man-hours) problem.</p><p></p><p>And if you just assume 4 authors per issue (not counting some authors who have articles in many issues, I'm talking 4 new authors per issue), that's 1,000 authors over the course of 250 issues. 1,000 letters to send out asking for permission. And given your initial contract was probably betwee $100 and $300, and only assuming a 10% "reprint fee" charged by each author, that's still $10,000-$30,000. And then there are the artists, who are going to number at least as many as the authors, and probably for a similar expense. Suddenly this reprint is going to cost you $20,000-$60,000, and you'll only know how much after tracking down a bunch of people. And some of them will refuse and you'll get an incomplete product that the consumers will complain about. In any case, $20k-$60k is no small amount of money, even for WotC. That's 1-3 salaries, depending on what they're doing at the company. And under the watchful and evil eye of Hasbro, no department is going to happily fork over that kind of money easily.</p><p></p><p>{I do see the problem with finding some of the writers from the old days, but really, how big of a problem is that? So what, they have to make a few phone calls?}</p><p></p><p>How about I give you names of 5 authors and/or artists from, say, Dragon #50. You try to track them down and tell us how easy it is. Not everything is just a Google search away. People move, they change names, they change careers, they disappear, they die.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="seankreynolds, post: 1392164, member: 3029"] I was having internet problems two days ago, so this message I composed couldn't be posted. It repeats some of what some other people have said, but I thought it had some additional info that y'all might find interesting or relevant, so here it is. Perhaps the buyer is looking at it as a matter of, "If I want magazine X's issues 1-100, do I track down the original print runs for all 100 issues, track down reprints for all 100 issues, or grab the electronic "reprint" on CD-ROM? Which is easiest for the consumer? Uses less paper? Takes up the least amount of space? Has a search function to find the exact article you want instead of waiting for the "index issue" printed every couple of years? If an electronic version of the magazine on CD-ROM is really no different than a paper reprint, why should the authors and artists get any more compensation for that material? Why is it that a company that wants to issue a collection of magazines -- a product that consumers want and would be very handy -- can do so without a peep from the contributors if they just reissue the magazines in paper form (possibly adding a nice set of slipcases, possibly not), but as soon as those magazines are compiled into an electronic format, it's a massive copyright violation? This sort of thing leaves the company with four options. (1) Rerelease the mags in paper. Very expensive to produce, older issues were hand-typeset and would have to be scanned and made print-ready for modern machines, uses a lot of paper, takes up a lot of space on shelves and in the warehouse, a very niche item, very high price for the consumer (you're basically paying for every issue of the mag, with prices adjusted for inflation ... for the Dragon archive that's $5 times 250 issues = $1,250) which few can afford. (2) Rerelease the mags in electronic format. This entails getting the magazines scanned and put on CD. Not too expensive. Small shelf footprint, small cost for the consumer, much more effective as a product. (3) As #2, but according to your reasoning (tracking down all the authors), the company should also have to contact every single author/artist that ever created something for the magazine and get their permission to use that material again in what is essentially an electronic reprint. The company has to pay those who demand money or not include their material, and leave out material from contributors who can't be located. This requires editing the scanned files (more work, more expense). Suddenly the electronic version isn't complete, and is therefore less valuable to those interested in buying it. And how are they to know if their favorite article or story from issue #Z is included in the archive? Should a big master list be made of every single thing that's in or not in the magazine compilation, just so the consumer knows exactly what he's getting? More work, more expense ... higher cost to the end consumer. (4) Not reprint the product at all. Option 1 is impractical. Option 2 is ideal. Option 3 is impractical and isn't much of a benefit to the consumer. Option 4 is easiest. Because of some contributors complaining (i.e., option 3), WotC had problems making the Dragon CD-ROM. As far as I can tell, that's why there is no Dungeon or Polyhedron CD-ROM (i.e, option 4). Who is hurt? The consumers. {Again, I don't know much about the industry, but as I said earlier, I don't think the writers will be asking for "millions" as some think. They may not even ask for anything. And some of their contracts are probably written so that they [I]can't[/I] ask for anything.} Certainly some of the older contracts have WotC/TSR owning everything outright (I ran into this question when I was TSR webmaster and was putting old issues online ... I needed Legal's approval on which article went up based on which ones we owned outright, mainly those written by people on staff at the time). Finding out which contracts apply and don't is another time-consuming (and thus expensive in terms of man-hours) problem. And if you just assume 4 authors per issue (not counting some authors who have articles in many issues, I'm talking 4 new authors per issue), that's 1,000 authors over the course of 250 issues. 1,000 letters to send out asking for permission. And given your initial contract was probably betwee $100 and $300, and only assuming a 10% "reprint fee" charged by each author, that's still $10,000-$30,000. And then there are the artists, who are going to number at least as many as the authors, and probably for a similar expense. Suddenly this reprint is going to cost you $20,000-$60,000, and you'll only know how much after tracking down a bunch of people. And some of them will refuse and you'll get an incomplete product that the consumers will complain about. In any case, $20k-$60k is no small amount of money, even for WotC. That's 1-3 salaries, depending on what they're doing at the company. And under the watchful and evil eye of Hasbro, no department is going to happily fork over that kind of money easily. {I do see the problem with finding some of the writers from the old days, but really, how big of a problem is that? So what, they have to make a few phone calls?} How about I give you names of 5 authors and/or artists from, say, Dragon #50. You try to track them down and tell us how easy it is. Not everything is just a Google search away. People move, they change names, they change careers, they disappear, they die. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
ATTN Piazo: Dungeon mag and Dragon mag CD-roms & the Tasini v NY Times decision
Top