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Message: <blockquote data-quote="anonystu" data-source="post: 1037191" data-attributes="member: 10897">Okay, we'll do the math with saves:(edit: I forgot to add spell focus and gsf to the wizard, which is kind of very silly. My apologies. Added in sorcerous bolt)Let's say you're facing a big bad. We'll give our big bad a reflex save of +5. Our magister and wizard both have int 18. The wizard has spell focus and greater spell focus evocation.5th-level Wizard casting Lightning Bolt (saves on 14 or higher, 5d6)17.5 65% of time + 8.75 35% of time 14.44 ED, costs 3rd-level slot.1st-level Magister casting 0-level empowered firefireburst (saves on 9 or higher, (1d4 + 2d6) * 1.5 dmg)14.25 40% of time + 7.125 60% of time9.975 ED, costs two 0-level slots and 20 gp1st-level wizard casting magic missile (1d4+1)3.5 100% of time3 ED, costs 1st level slot.Let's move on to an example where everybody is at 6th-level:6th level wizard casting lightning bolt (saves on 14 or higher,6d6)21 65% of time + 10.5 35% of time17.35 ED, costs one 3rd-level slot.6th level magister casting 3rd-level empowered eldritch firefire sorcerous bolt (saves on 13 or higher, (6d6 +2d6)*1.5 dmg)42 60% of time + 21 40% of time33.6 ED, costs two 3rd-level slots, costs 20gp.6th level magister casting 1st-level empowered eldritch firefireburst (saves on 11 or higher,  (4d6 + 2d6)*1.5 dmg)32.5 50% of time + 16.25 50% of time24.38 ED, costs two 1st-level slots, costs 20 gp.6th level penny-pinching magister casting 1-level empowered eldritch fireburst (saves on 11 or higher, 4d6*1.5 dmg)25 50% of time + 12.5 50% of time17.75 ED, costs two 1st-level slots6th level magic missile10.5 100% of time10.5 ED, costs 1st-level slot.Our 6th level magister can fire the penny-pinching version of the spell, without spending /any money/ 6 times, get better damage than a lightning bolt, and then still have enough slots left over to cast the heightened version (even more damage) 3 times on top of that.That it costs the modify spell feat (for the penny-pincher version) is no problem at all: modify spell is a rough combination of about 6 or 7 metamagic feats from D&D, except for that every single one of those metamagic feats now costs less (they only laden spells instead of raising levels). It's a pretty easy must-take feat for just about any spellcaster.</blockquote>

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