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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 1648670" data-attributes="member: 1757">Actually, Monte recommends keeping this sort of separation, y'know.Fair enough, but we're talking about how the classes actually play out. I can go on about how the D&D fighter is worthless past 10th level, or how the rogue will never survive a combat on his own - but the point is that there are three other folks expected to be around too, no?And 5d6 sneak attack damage is pretty pathetic at 20th level too. My experience is that SA is just too easy to foil; in the situations in which it is NOT, the rogue is a better choice than the unfettered anyway, since, as otherwise noted, the rogue's improved SA damage (TWICE that of the unfettered) easily offsets the lower BAB. No; he's casting it while hidden, which is a pretty easy task for the ranger given his high Stealth and Perception skill mods, which will allow him to pick out the enemy before the enemy picks him out. Probably not with animal growth, actually; certainly, my experience has been otherwise. Moreover, the ranger should be used as a scout; in a toe-to-toe, a straight fighter will be better than the unfettered anyway (and we can do that comparison separately).I'll also note that you're leaving FE damage out of consideration entirely; an odd thing to do, given that at 20th level, it's MORE likely that the ranger will get to use this class feature than that the unfettered will get to SA.In any case, my point wasn't to say that the ranger can buckle swash better than the unfettered, or that the unfettered can't scout as well as the ranger; my point was to put out an existing WotC-designed light fighter with which very few people appear to have balance problems, yet which contains similarly attractive class features to the unfettered's. And I wasn't really trying to advocate using animal companions to inflict raw damage, but rather pointing out that they can be used to tactical effect in a manner that's potentially equal or superior to the sheer power inherent in 5d6 SA.If we're actually talking numbers, I'd just compare the unfettered to a straight fighter, or better still a fighter/standard PrC (since the unfettered only gets all his goodies by sticking to the core class all the way). If it's the raw combat power you're concerned about, mmu1 (and it appears to be, since you're focusing on the unfettered's AC bonus and SA), think about the barbarian:-Needs to max out only two ability scores, Str and Con (as opposed to at Dexterity, Intelligence, Constitution, and Strength for the unfettered)-Gets +40 hp over the unfettered, jumping to +120 while raging-Inflicts an extra +4 damage per attack while raging, all the time, against every opponent-Can use two-handed weapons to maximize damage potential-Has DR 5/-In return, the unfettered gets a +7 AC bonus and +5d6 SA. Great. Lower Str and lighter weapons means that he'll NEED that SA damage, and lower hit points and no DR mean that he'll need the AC bonus. I haven't done the math, but I imagine that the ability to take an extra 120 hp damage and to subtract 5 hp damage from every blow probably more than evens out with the AC bonus. In short, the UF is a good class, but like the ranger, it'll never match up in toe-to-toe slugfests with the barbarian or heavy fighter. Like the ranger (or, if you will, the rogue), however, it also has a number of nice abilities that aren't directly combat-related, and like the rogue, it is a viable lightly-armored, low-Strength combatant. None of this means that it's overpowered, since these assets are good individually, but don't synergize to make a character that's better than anyone else at what they do.</blockquote>

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