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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Brian Gibbons" data-source="post: 3421803" data-attributes="member: 7369">I've been an opponent of auto-fail rules for saving throws in 3e since Skip surreptitiously slipped them in.  Like anything that increases the impact of randomness, they disfavor the player, quite seriously in some cases.Auto-failing saves is a relic of 2e, added as a patch there because without it, characters could reach a point where they could never fail, because the type of spell or level of spell had little or no effect on the difficulty of the saving throw.One of 3e's major changes was making challenges scale with abilities: DCs increase as saves increase; SR increases as caster level goes up.  In 3e, creatures can have a weak DC 11 death attack, or a strong death attack of DC 21.  Gone are the days where a PC of level X could save against any spell on a 2, or had a flat 95% MR regardless of who was casting the spell on you.It's worth nothing that auto-failing saves was not a part of the 3e rules.  Depending on who you talk to, this was either deliberate or an oversight.  Skip Williams added it back in via the FAQ, with no basis other than he thought that's the way the game should work; unfortunately, it made its way back into the rules in the 3.5e revision.Sixty-four 1st level adepts casting Command on you is an EL 10 encounter.  You have a ~4% chance of making all of your saving throws, and a 96% chance of failing at least one and being at their mercy, no matter what level you are or what your Will save is.Sixteen basilisks is an EL 13 encounter.  You have a 55% chance of rolling at least one natural 1 and being turned to stone permanently, no matter what level you are or what your Fortitude save is.I find D&D challenging enough without adding in the risk of auto-death.  Most characters have weaknesses; if a PC wasn't able to or chose not to shore his weaknesses, I'm fine with him not being able to make a saving throw and dying.  That's part of the game.  If a character, however, is prepared, takes precautions and has taken care to shore up his weak points, I find the idea of dying due to the dumb luck of a natural 1 (that would have otherwise saved) to be frustrating.A 20th level character with a base save of 30 should not be able to die automatically to a CR 4 creature with a DC 11 attack.  That's not 3e D&D.</blockquote>

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