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Auto-Quicken Spell + Multispell + Time Stop + Wish = Cheese (Time Stop+Wish Argument)
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<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 925372" data-attributes="member: 3051"><p>Well, there's a few things that would stop this.</p><p></p><p>1> Time Stop has a duration of 1d4+1 round. It's never explicitly stated that the caster knows how many rounds he gets. So, you could interpret it either way; personally, I'd go with the "DM rolls it in secret" method simply because it prevents this sort of strategy.</p><p></p><p>2> What is permissible with a Wish is up to the DM. Restoring your entire daily allotment of spells goes WAY beyond what any DM I know would allow. Most of the things Wish can do are comparable to a 7th or 8th-level spell, because the primary function of the spell is to mimic lower abilities. It's clearly not balanced to have that effect at those spell levels.</p><p></p><p>Side Note: IMC, Wish is actually the second half of a two-part spell, Grant Wish being the other half. You can think of it this way if you want to figure whether something is a valid request.</p><p>Wish costs 5000 XP and sends an unblockable Sending (25 words max) to a random granter (usually a Djinn), who is then bound by a geas to grant your request as best as he possibly can. It also creates a sort of planar conduit to allow him to cast the spell as if he were located next to you, as if you were his Familiar.</p><p>Grant Wish has two effects: mimicking lower-level spells, or giving Inherent Bonuses. That's all it does. Casting it gains you that XP the other guy spent, but you can't CHOOSE to cast the spell, it only happens when someone Wishes (and since the wish is granted by a random person with this spell, it's not abuseable).</p><p>So, when someone makes a Wish, they're making a request to a sentient being who has to try to satisfy it using lower-level spells (or by granting an Inherent Bonus). That being isn't being malicious when he twists your Wish's meaning, he's simply trying to accomplish the task within his abilities. If you ask to never die, and he casts Imprisonment, it's because that's the only method within his capabilities that satisfies your stated request. (Some Djinn CAN be malicious, of course, if the request is totally at odds with their alignment, in which case they might find the worst way to do the job. Such as "attack that enemy!" resulting in them lobbing a Daze spell. It pays to be explicit.)</p><p>He can't chose not to help you unless there's no way to accomplish the task at all, in which case the geas fails and nothing happens.</p><p></p><p>If you ask for something really strange (a permanent, pencil-thin moustache), he might be mimicking a spell you've never heard of (DM's call, see?) to do it.</p><p></p><p>3> I'd also agree with the "no Instantaneous spells" people. Time isn't STOPPED, it's just slowed down for you personally. Instantaneous spells would take place at that instant from your point of view (i.e., inside the slow-time frame), and the damage immunity everyone else gets would stop that. After all, if I can throw a Fireball at someone and have it delay until the end of the Time Stop, why can't I throw a dagger and have it hang in the air until the spell ends?</p><p></p><p>It seems clear to me that the INTENT was that durational spells wouldn't start counting until the end of the spell to avoid giving Time Stop a downside for the caster. (It'd suck if your Haste wore off early because you chose to Time Stop).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 925372, member: 3051"] Well, there's a few things that would stop this. 1> Time Stop has a duration of 1d4+1 round. It's never explicitly stated that the caster knows how many rounds he gets. So, you could interpret it either way; personally, I'd go with the "DM rolls it in secret" method simply because it prevents this sort of strategy. 2> What is permissible with a Wish is up to the DM. Restoring your entire daily allotment of spells goes WAY beyond what any DM I know would allow. Most of the things Wish can do are comparable to a 7th or 8th-level spell, because the primary function of the spell is to mimic lower abilities. It's clearly not balanced to have that effect at those spell levels. Side Note: IMC, Wish is actually the second half of a two-part spell, Grant Wish being the other half. You can think of it this way if you want to figure whether something is a valid request. Wish costs 5000 XP and sends an unblockable Sending (25 words max) to a random granter (usually a Djinn), who is then bound by a geas to grant your request as best as he possibly can. It also creates a sort of planar conduit to allow him to cast the spell as if he were located next to you, as if you were his Familiar. Grant Wish has two effects: mimicking lower-level spells, or giving Inherent Bonuses. That's all it does. Casting it gains you that XP the other guy spent, but you can't CHOOSE to cast the spell, it only happens when someone Wishes (and since the wish is granted by a random person with this spell, it's not abuseable). So, when someone makes a Wish, they're making a request to a sentient being who has to try to satisfy it using lower-level spells (or by granting an Inherent Bonus). That being isn't being malicious when he twists your Wish's meaning, he's simply trying to accomplish the task within his abilities. If you ask to never die, and he casts Imprisonment, it's because that's the only method within his capabilities that satisfies your stated request. (Some Djinn CAN be malicious, of course, if the request is totally at odds with their alignment, in which case they might find the worst way to do the job. Such as "attack that enemy!" resulting in them lobbing a Daze spell. It pays to be explicit.) He can't chose not to help you unless there's no way to accomplish the task at all, in which case the geas fails and nothing happens. If you ask for something really strange (a permanent, pencil-thin moustache), he might be mimicking a spell you've never heard of (DM's call, see?) to do it. 3> I'd also agree with the "no Instantaneous spells" people. Time isn't STOPPED, it's just slowed down for you personally. Instantaneous spells would take place at that instant from your point of view (i.e., inside the slow-time frame), and the damage immunity everyone else gets would stop that. After all, if I can throw a Fireball at someone and have it delay until the end of the Time Stop, why can't I throw a dagger and have it hang in the air until the spell ends? It seems clear to me that the INTENT was that durational spells wouldn't start counting until the end of the spell to avoid giving Time Stop a downside for the caster. (It'd suck if your Haste wore off early because you chose to Time Stop). [/QUOTE]
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Auto-Quicken Spell + Multispell + Time Stop + Wish = Cheese (Time Stop+Wish Argument)
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