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Auto-Quicken Spell + Multispell + Time Stop + Wish = Cheese (Time Stop+Wish Argument)
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<blockquote data-quote="tbitonti" data-source="post: 932248" data-attributes="member: 10416"><p><strong>Recovering spells vs casting costs</strong></p><p></p><p>Just wondering; wishing to recover spells doesn't mean that you won't have to pay whatever casting cost is involved. Lots of spells have pretty high casting costs, will that make up some of the benefit?</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, wishing to recover spells seems to be the same as wishing for an extended time out long enough to rememorize spells. That's what, 8+ hours? That's a hugely extended TimeStop.</p><p></p><p>I am interested in what folks consider a wish can do ... the concrete examples seem somewhat limited ... so, can a wish:</p><p></p><p>Restore 1 person and their personal belongings, right now, and next to me, in the same state as they were at the beginning of the battle, except for the time an location?</p><p></p><p>Restore the party (1, 5, or 10 people) except myself, right now, and in a close circle about me, as they were at the beginning of the battle, except for the time and location?</p><p></p><p>These seem pretty standard as wishes go. How much state would be recovered?</p><p></p><p>It gets hard to be more exact -- I like the idea of the Wisdom or Intelligence test to determine the amount of deviation from the apparent intent.</p><p></p><p>On the SRD text:</p><p></p><p>"While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to the character's attacks and spells; however, the character can create spell effects and leave them to take effect when the time stop spell ends. (The spells’ durations do not begin until the time stop is over.)"</p><p></p><p>That seems pretty clear to me: you can cast a spell and have it take effect within the time stop (and hence be useless, except to affect yourself), or have it leave the time stop (and hence be frozen until the time stop expires). The text doesn't (but could) distinguish instantaneous spells, so I don't see why they should be treated any different.</p><p></p><p>About the disagreements: Perhaps a restatement can diffuse this. A simple 'As written, time stop does seem to allow X, but that seems overpowered to me, so I don't allow timestop to used like that.' Otherwise, the discussion is all about the proper interpretation of the SRD text, which would require a lot more definitions and linguisitics and so forth.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tbitonti, post: 932248, member: 10416"] [b]Recovering spells vs casting costs[/b] Just wondering; wishing to recover spells doesn't mean that you won't have to pay whatever casting cost is involved. Lots of spells have pretty high casting costs, will that make up some of the benefit? On the other hand, wishing to recover spells seems to be the same as wishing for an extended time out long enough to rememorize spells. That's what, 8+ hours? That's a hugely extended TimeStop. I am interested in what folks consider a wish can do ... the concrete examples seem somewhat limited ... so, can a wish: Restore 1 person and their personal belongings, right now, and next to me, in the same state as they were at the beginning of the battle, except for the time an location? Restore the party (1, 5, or 10 people) except myself, right now, and in a close circle about me, as they were at the beginning of the battle, except for the time and location? These seem pretty standard as wishes go. How much state would be recovered? It gets hard to be more exact -- I like the idea of the Wisdom or Intelligence test to determine the amount of deviation from the apparent intent. On the SRD text: "While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to the character's attacks and spells; however, the character can create spell effects and leave them to take effect when the time stop spell ends. (The spells’ durations do not begin until the time stop is over.)" That seems pretty clear to me: you can cast a spell and have it take effect within the time stop (and hence be useless, except to affect yourself), or have it leave the time stop (and hence be frozen until the time stop expires). The text doesn't (but could) distinguish instantaneous spells, so I don't see why they should be treated any different. About the disagreements: Perhaps a restatement can diffuse this. A simple 'As written, time stop does seem to allow X, but that seems overpowered to me, so I don't allow timestop to used like that.' Otherwise, the discussion is all about the proper interpretation of the SRD text, which would require a lot more definitions and linguisitics and so forth. [/QUOTE]
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Auto-Quicken Spell + Multispell + Time Stop + Wish = Cheese (Time Stop+Wish Argument)
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