Automatic weapons: CoC vs. Dragonstar

[SpuneDagr]

I recently purchased both of these books and they each present an alternate set of rules for dealing with an automatic weapon's burst.

CoC says you get additional attacks at your base attack bonus, with all of them at a minus 4 penalty or so (it varies a bit).

Dragonstar says you make one attack roll and for every 5 points you get above the opponent's AC, you score another hit (up to 3 or 5, depending on the weapon).

I think the Dragonstar option better reflects reality. When you are firing an automatic burst you do not do anything different when you aim the weapon, do you? Your first bullet is going to be just as accurate as a single shot, IMO.

Any other thoughts on this?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don`t understand the CoC rules as you wrote them (but I am a bit unconcentraded now): Do you mean, they gain extra attacks due to base attack at lower "penalties" (normally, subtract 5 from your attack bonus, if the value is 1 or greater, you gain an extra attack - with Automatic Weapon, subtract 4?), or do you gain "yet another attack" at -4?

The Dragonstar rules seem to work well. With Autofire Expert (or how this feat is called) it can be very deadly, but we did not suffer great problems...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[DM with a vengence]

I really don't like the CoC, the Dragonstar ones sound much better to me.

Of course there has to be some penalty for automatic fire, other wise the investigators are going to be opening up on everything with full auto, so I propose -1 for each additional bullet fired, with a maximum number of hits equal to the amount of bullets fired.

AKA
1 attack at full
2 attacks at -1
3 attacks at -2
4 attacks at -3
and so on

 

[Renocide]

Ive tried it....

Ive actually fired a full automatic M-60 and M-16 in the military. Trust me when I tell ya that your lucky if any shot beyond the first actually hits the target. Even aiming is worthless in full auto.
Supression fire is the only thing this setting is worth. You put enough round in the enemy direction and they will keep thier heads down while your squad mates move up to take him/her out at close range. Tripods or bipods ofcourse helps ALOT!
Burst fire(3 rounds per trigger pull) was placed on the M-16A2 for two reason pretty much. Cut down on the troops running out of ammo within 3 seconds and anything beyond the three rounds isnt probably going to hit anything anyway.
As to which version is more accurate Id say the CoC version. As a player I say the Dragonstar is better tho!!

 

[trancejeremy]

Re: Ive tried it....

Burst fire(3 rounds per trigger pull) was placed on the M-16A2 for two reason pretty much. Cut down on the troops running out of ammo within 3 seconds and anything beyond the three rounds isnt probably going to hit anything anyway.
As to which version is more accurate Id say the CoC version. As a player I say the Dragonstar is better tho!!

Well, the Dragonstar rules are designed with that in mind.

The first shot is the most accurate, with the next two less likely to hit. (3-shot bursts being the most common)

 

[Broken Fang]

We have played with both the DragonStar and CoC rules. The DragonStar rules are much easier to use during game play! We will just continue to use them as we go...WotC probably wanted to continue to follow their example. Our DragonStar friends have a sensible rule...every 5 by which you exceed your required hit roll means another round hits (you can take a feat that drops it to every 3). This makes it harder to hit with each extra shot...somewhat realistic.
I to have shot both the M-16 and M-60 and either way makes it harder, the DragonStar way is just so much easier!

 

[SpuneDagr]

Yeah, the Dragonstar way struck me as much more elegant. Thanks a lot, everybody.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I have some experience with the G36 (Assault Rifle) and the MG3 (Machine Gun). The G36 does fire in Semi and Automode, the MG3 only in Full-Auto. There are no 3-shot-modes.
(What is the Englisch expression for "Wehrpflicht", by the way? Military Duty?)
Well, we were trained to fire short bursts when in Automode. If you fire this way, you are unable to target certain objects. You can attempt to fire at a single one, or to fire at a certain spread/cone (supressive fire). I think the Dragonstar rules do reflect this very well.

Mustrum "Pull Trigger, Repeat if neccessary?" Ridcully