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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BobTheNob" data-source="post: 5020936" data-attributes="member: 82425">Before anything else, This is an idea I had for our groups game and I in no way would advise this for a wider audience. I am hoping I can get some feedback from others on whether this is a "game breaker" One of the key upsetting factors of the Avenger is that their ability to output damage is really based upon the ability to the the critical target number down (19 at minimum, 18 if possible) due to its leveraging against the double roll. It has been pointed out many times and numericaly verified that they lack compared to other strikers if they cannot do this (from reading lotsa optomisation forums).The unfortunate response to this has been that nearly all "effective" avenger builds involve one of two methods* Multiclassing into a paragon that offers higher crit (e.g. Radiant servant, student of caiphon). This is just upsetting. I havent seen one avenger build that uses an avenger paragon, which is just heartbreaking. Other striker classes are fully feasible while staying true to flavor, but the Avenger is obligated to create "cheese" builds to stay in the game.* Stack strength to get access to Weapon mastery at epic. Again, the avenger is forced to (substantially) stack a NON CLASS statistic to get a feat at epic. No other class is expected to do this, but again, if the avenger wants to stay feasible, this is what they have to do. The unfortunate part of this was that such a build had to sacrifice either Dex or Int to do so, which meant a drop in AC, which was most often offset by using leather or hide, which is no longer an option! (Nov 2009 Errata) meaning paragon cheese builds are all thats left Either of these paths was an unnatural approach. There is the argument that one shouldnt worry about the numbers and mechanics and should just play the character (and crit rating be damned!). I fully agree with this, but would like the avenger to be flavourfull ANF feasible. I therefore put forward the following proposition.  Advantages* If you want still want to create an avenger/whatever build because that suits the flavor of your character, you can* If you dont want to want a cheese path and still remain feasible, you can* This kicks in in the paragon game...where the cheese generally begins* No need to stack strength* If you want to stack strength to be able to get weapon mastery at epic (and therefore able to apply crit rating to a far broader set of circumstance), go for it. Just retrain.* Its not a crit vs everything, just to that oath of emnity scenario, meaning that it is a situational boost to the avengers striker role. So, any feedback from fellow dm's?</blockquote>

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