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Avenger, the headache class?
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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4916874" data-attributes="member: 40961"><p>I'm going to have to borrow Magic the Gathering terminology here.</p><p> </p><p>Over on the Magic boards, they sometimes refer to abilities by animal names. A "rattlesnake" card or ability, for example, is one that threatens to retaliate against someone if they do something you don't like. For example, a card which reads, "Sacrifice this card to destroy target attacking creature" is a rattlesnake ability. Your opponent is put in an awkward position. He can see the card. He knows that if he attacks you with his best creature, you'll destroy it. But if he doesn't, he doesn't attack very effectively.</p><p> </p><p>D&D has rattlesnake abilities. Marks are the big, obvious example. "If you attack someone other than me, something bad happens to you." So the monster attacks the marker in order to avoid the bad thing, or else the monster suffers a lot of additional bad stuff from violating the mark.</p><p> </p><p>Some of the Censures are rattlesnake abilities.</p><p> </p><p>The Censure of Pursuit says to ranged attackers, "You have three choices, all of them bad. If you use a ranged attack in melee, I'll take an opportunity attack with this big huge sword, and I'll even roll twice to hit. You won't like that! And if you shift back a space then make a ranged attack, next round I'll get a big bonus to damage. You won't like that either. And if you stay and attack with a melee attack, then you didn't get to use your best stuff, you'll probably miss me because I've got great armor, and you'll do lousy damage compared to your favorite ranged attacks."</p><p> </p><p>The Censure of Retribution messes up melee types in a similar way. The Avenger is usually strong enough to solo most melee enemies. He's got good armor, a good weapon, and good hit points. Plus he rolls his attacks twice most of the time. He doesn't kill things quite as fast as the other strikers, but he generally get beaten up like them either. So what could the monsters do about it? Well, they could gang up on him. But if they do, his damage skyrockets. It might be best to leave him alone, but if they do, he'll just keep killing their ally.</p><p> </p><p>And Censure of Unity is just straight up teamwork bonuses. The damage bonus is low enough that your enemies probably won't treat it like a rattlesnake, and its easy to acquire, so you'll probably see a lot of it. Its like sneak attack lite. Simple and functional, and occasionally devastating the last monster standing.</p><p> </p><p>So that's the thing with these abilities. Its not so much about whether you get their effect, as whether you control monster behavior by means of threats.</p><p> </p><p>Which has a lot to do, actualy, with why I don't like a lot of the Avenger's powers. They either attack at range, sacrificing the doubled attack roll (one ranged attack is good for variety, lots is not), or they simply function as larger rattles of exactly the same type as their already rattlesnake based class. So many of the Pursuit powers say to the enemy, "Ok, move away from me now and you're REALLY screwed!" Well, they were already pretty screwed. How much more screwed do they need to be before they just decide to stay where they are? I have the same problem with Fighter powers that boil down to marking the enemy, but better. They were already marked. That wasn't enough? A lot of rattlesnake classes have these problems.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4916874, member: 40961"] I'm going to have to borrow Magic the Gathering terminology here. Over on the Magic boards, they sometimes refer to abilities by animal names. A "rattlesnake" card or ability, for example, is one that threatens to retaliate against someone if they do something you don't like. For example, a card which reads, "Sacrifice this card to destroy target attacking creature" is a rattlesnake ability. Your opponent is put in an awkward position. He can see the card. He knows that if he attacks you with his best creature, you'll destroy it. But if he doesn't, he doesn't attack very effectively. D&D has rattlesnake abilities. Marks are the big, obvious example. "If you attack someone other than me, something bad happens to you." So the monster attacks the marker in order to avoid the bad thing, or else the monster suffers a lot of additional bad stuff from violating the mark. Some of the Censures are rattlesnake abilities. The Censure of Pursuit says to ranged attackers, "You have three choices, all of them bad. If you use a ranged attack in melee, I'll take an opportunity attack with this big huge sword, and I'll even roll twice to hit. You won't like that! And if you shift back a space then make a ranged attack, next round I'll get a big bonus to damage. You won't like that either. And if you stay and attack with a melee attack, then you didn't get to use your best stuff, you'll probably miss me because I've got great armor, and you'll do lousy damage compared to your favorite ranged attacks." The Censure of Retribution messes up melee types in a similar way. The Avenger is usually strong enough to solo most melee enemies. He's got good armor, a good weapon, and good hit points. Plus he rolls his attacks twice most of the time. He doesn't kill things quite as fast as the other strikers, but he generally get beaten up like them either. So what could the monsters do about it? Well, they could gang up on him. But if they do, his damage skyrockets. It might be best to leave him alone, but if they do, he'll just keep killing their ally. And Censure of Unity is just straight up teamwork bonuses. The damage bonus is low enough that your enemies probably won't treat it like a rattlesnake, and its easy to acquire, so you'll probably see a lot of it. Its like sneak attack lite. Simple and functional, and occasionally devastating the last monster standing. So that's the thing with these abilities. Its not so much about whether you get their effect, as whether you control monster behavior by means of threats. Which has a lot to do, actualy, with why I don't like a lot of the Avenger's powers. They either attack at range, sacrificing the doubled attack roll (one ranged attack is good for variety, lots is not), or they simply function as larger rattles of exactly the same type as their already rattlesnake based class. So many of the Pursuit powers say to the enemy, "Ok, move away from me now and you're REALLY screwed!" Well, they were already pretty screwed. How much more screwed do they need to be before they just decide to stay where they are? I have the same problem with Fighter powers that boil down to marking the enemy, but better. They were already marked. That wasn't enough? A lot of rattlesnake classes have these problems. [/QUOTE]
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