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<blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 4759438" data-attributes="member: 71571">Alright, not counting criticals in this, because Power Attack doesn't really affect that side of things (+3 damage is +3 damage, critical or not)But....If damage after PA is more than damage before PA, then PA, otherwise, do not.&nbsp; The math for when to PA when not oathed doesn't change... it's a fairly simple formula of when to and when not to.But, when you Oath.... the math gets -very- complex.If your probabilty to hit (before Oath) is p, and the average damage is d, then your DPR is:pd before oathpd+(1-p)pd=pd+pd-p^2d=2pd+p^2dAt heroic, you're exchanging 10% to hit for 3 points of damage.So, if 2(p-0.1)(d+3)+[(p-0.1)^2](d+3) &gt; 2pd+[p^2]d then PA is good.(2p-0.2)(d+3)+[p^2-0.2p+0.02](d+3) &gt; 2pd+[p^2]d2pd - 0.2d + 6p - 0.6 + [p^2]d - 0.2pd + 0.02d + 3p^2 - 0.6p + 0.06 &gt; 2pd + [p^2]d6p - 0.6p - 0.6 + 0.06 - 0.2pd + 0.02d - 0.2d + 3p^2 &gt; 05.4p - 0.54 - 0.2pd - 0.18d + 3p^2 &gt; 05.4p + 3p^2 &gt; 0.18d + 0.54 + pd/50Egad this formula is a headache.&nbsp; But take your chance to hit, plug it in, your average damage per hit (which may or may not include Censure), and work it.&nbsp; Use an Excel spread sheet.So, let's say I have a dwarven persuing avenger with 18 Wis, and 16 Dex.&nbsp; I'm using a mordenkrad, with DWT, at level 1.&nbsp; Average damage per hit is (2d5+2)+4+2= 14Without Censure:7&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE8&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE9&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE10&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE11&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSE12&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSE13&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSESo, if I can hit on a 10 without power attack, it is good to power attack.However with Censure, my average damage per hit goes up to 18:4&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE5&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE6&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE7&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE8&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSE9&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSE10&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSE11&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSE12&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSE13&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSESo... in this case, it is not a good idea to power attack unless I can hit on a 7 (or more favorably)Power attack gets worse the more damage you do, but for avengers, the math changes a bit.&nbsp; If you're using a fullblade, however, your average damage is only 10.5 for this character before Censure:9&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE10&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE11&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE12&nbsp; &nbsp; TRUE13&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSE14&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSE15&nbsp; &nbsp; FALSESo use it if you can hit with a 12.Hope that helps.EDIT:&nbsp; Working on a version that works across tiers.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DracoSuave, post: 4759438, member: 71571"] Alright, not counting criticals in this, because Power Attack doesn't really affect that side of things (+3 damage is +3 damage, critical or not) But.... If damage after PA is more than damage before PA, then PA, otherwise, do not. The math for when to PA when not oathed doesn't change... it's a fairly simple formula of when to and when not to. But, when you Oath.... the math gets -very- complex. If your probabilty to hit (before Oath) is p, and the average damage is d, then your DPR is: pd before oath pd+(1-p)pd= pd+pd-p^2d= 2pd+p^2d At heroic, you're exchanging 10% to hit for 3 points of damage. So, if 2(p-0.1)(d+3)+[(p-0.1)^2](d+3) > 2pd+[p^2]d then PA is good. (2p-0.2)(d+3)+[p^2-0.2p+0.02](d+3) > 2pd+[p^2]d 2pd - 0.2d + 6p - 0.6 + [p^2]d - 0.2pd + 0.02d + 3p^2 - 0.6p + 0.06 > 2pd + [p^2]d 6p - 0.6p - 0.6 + 0.06 - 0.2pd + 0.02d - 0.2d + 3p^2 > 0 5.4p - 0.54 - 0.2pd - 0.18d + 3p^2 > 0 5.4p + 3p^2 > 0.18d + 0.54 + pd/50 Egad this formula is a headache. But take your chance to hit, plug it in, your average damage per hit (which may or may not include Censure), and work it. Use an Excel spread sheet. So, let's say I have a dwarven persuing avenger with 18 Wis, and 16 Dex. I'm using a mordenkrad, with DWT, at level 1. Average damage per hit is (2d5+2)+4+2= 14 Without Censure: 7 TRUE 8 TRUE 9 TRUE 10 TRUE 11 FALSE 12 FALSE 13 FALSE So, if I can hit on a 10 without power attack, it is good to power attack. However with Censure, my average damage per hit goes up to 18: 4 TRUE 5 TRUE 6 TRUE 7 TRUE 8 FALSE 9 FALSE 10 FALSE 11 FALSE 12 FALSE 13 FALSE So... in this case, it is not a good idea to power attack unless I can hit on a 7 (or more favorably) Power attack gets worse the more damage you do, but for avengers, the math changes a bit. If you're using a fullblade, however, your average damage is only 10.5 for this character before Censure: 9 TRUE 10 TRUE 11 TRUE 12 TRUE 13 FALSE 14 FALSE 15 FALSE So use it if you can hit with a 12. Hope that helps. EDIT: Working on a version that works across tiers. [/QUOTE]

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