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<blockquote data-quote="Psikus" data-source="post: 5765020" data-attributes="member: 66049">Oddly enough, I've been working on this very issue the last days, for a future blog post. I have a bunch of notes and a spreadsheet, but it will take a lot of rewriting and formatting before they can be read and understood by anyone other than me.Anyway, here is what I've got.The first thing to keep in mind is that any estimation of average PC damage is a gross simplification. Virtually every variable in a PC build affects damage, including level, class, build, power selection, feat selection, theme, gear, and a bunch of other thing. So I tried to come up with the bare minimum numbers, the kind of damage you'd get from a character that was not optimized, but not deliberately unoptimized, either. I use the following assumptions:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">- Starting 18 on primary score. Gets a +2 increase at epic from epic destiny.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">We look at a PC at levels 1,6,11,16,21,26, and 21.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">The PC pays his taxes: he takes expertise and focus.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">The PC gains a +2 magic weapon/implement at level 6, and upgrades it at every 6 levels thereafter. At level 6 he also gains gear granting a +2 item bonus to damage (IAoP / Staff of Ruin), which increases to +4 at lv.16 and +6 at lv.26.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">At-will attacks hit for 1d8 + primary mod. I round the average of the damage die to 5 because I find that half point of damage everywhere annoying.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Encounters deal an extra 5 damage at levels 1-7, 10 damage at levels 11-17, and 15 damage at levels 23-27.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> No other modifiers are considered.</li>
</ul>That gives us the damage figures for an unoptimized non-striker with no real focus on damage.Level&nbsp; &nbsp; Hit%&nbsp; &nbsp; Dmg. on AW hit1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.6&nbsp; &nbsp; 96&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.65&nbsp; &nbsp; 1411&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.65&nbsp; &nbsp; 1716&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.65&nbsp; &nbsp; 2121&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.7&nbsp; &nbsp; 3026&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.65&nbsp; &nbsp; 3330&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.6&nbsp; &nbsp; 34I also calculated damage for a basic unoptimized striker, using the same assumptions as above (i.e. no extra damage from feats, items, PPs and other factors is considered), but assuming that all its attack powers have some extra damage. This striker would hit for the same damage as the previous PC plus:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">An extra 3 damage/tier, from striker extra damage feature.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">An extra 3 damage/tier, from powers.</li>
</ul>This amounts to a 6 damage/tier difference between striker and non-striker, which is roughly equivalent to what you'd get from a d6/tier (striker feature) plus a secondary mod added to damage in powers like Sly flourish. The numbers for this striker would be: Level&nbsp; &nbsp; Hit%&nbsp; &nbsp; Dmg. on AW hit1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.6&nbsp; &nbsp; 156&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.65&nbsp; &nbsp; 2011&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.65&nbsp; &nbsp; 2916&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.65&nbsp; &nbsp; 3321&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.7&nbsp; &nbsp; 4826&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.65&nbsp; &nbsp; 5130&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.6&nbsp; &nbsp; 52So for these (unoptimized and simplified!) characters, the striker would be dealing 50% more damage than the non-striker. I then compared these figures with the stats of a monster of the PC's level, ending up with the following values for at-will DPR, turns to kill a monster with at-will attacks, and turns to kill a monster with at-wills and encounters.Non-StrikerLevel&nbsp; &nbsp; DPR&nbsp; &nbsp; K(AW)&nbsp; &nbsp; K(Enc)1&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.65&nbsp; &nbsp; 4.96&nbsp; &nbsp; 4.076&nbsp; &nbsp; 9.75&nbsp; &nbsp; 6.97&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.9511&nbsp; &nbsp; 11.9&nbsp; &nbsp; 9.08&nbsp; &nbsp; 6.9716&nbsp; &nbsp; 14.7&nbsp; &nbsp; 10.07&nbsp; &nbsp; 8.0321&nbsp; &nbsp; 22.5&nbsp; &nbsp; 8.36&nbsp; &nbsp; 7.6926&nbsp; &nbsp; 23.15&nbsp; &nbsp; 9.85&nbsp; &nbsp; 8.5530&nbsp; &nbsp; 22.1&nbsp; &nbsp; 11.76&nbsp; &nbsp; 10.41StrikerLevel&nbsp; &nbsp; DPR&nbsp; &nbsp; K(AW)&nbsp; &nbsp; K(Enc)1&nbsp; &nbsp; 9.25&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.03&nbsp; &nbsp; 2.496&nbsp; &nbsp; 13.65&nbsp; &nbsp; 4.98&nbsp; &nbsp; 4.2511&nbsp; &nbsp; 19.70&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.48&nbsp; &nbsp; 4.2116&nbsp; &nbsp; 22.50&nbsp; &nbsp; 6.58&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.2421&nbsp; &nbsp; 35.10&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.36&nbsp; &nbsp; 4.9326&nbsp; &nbsp; 34.85&nbsp; &nbsp; 6.54&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.6830&nbsp; &nbsp; 32.90&nbsp; &nbsp; 7.90&nbsp; &nbsp; 6.99So, at worst, the unoptimized non-striker PC should kill a monster in ~4 attacks at level 1 and ~10 at level 30, and the equivalent striker would do it in 2.5 attacks at level 1, and 7 at level 30.These numbers are about what I'd expect for heroic characters, but have awfully long encounters at epic. Then again, any kind of optimization should increase the damage substantially. At any rate, this provides a handy guideline for the worst case scenario.I also have run the numbers for higher level monsters, but this is going too long already <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Psikus, post: 5765020, member: 66049"] Oddly enough, I've been working on this very issue the last days, for a future blog post. I have a bunch of notes and a spreadsheet, but it will take a lot of rewriting and formatting before they can be read and understood by anyone other than me. Anyway, here is what I've got. The first thing to keep in mind is that any estimation of average PC damage is a gross simplification. Virtually every variable in a PC build affects damage, including level, class, build, power selection, feat selection, theme, gear, and a bunch of other thing. So I tried to come up with the bare minimum numbers, the kind of damage you'd get from a character that was not optimized, but not deliberately unoptimized, either. I use the following assumptions: [LIST] [*]- Starting 18 on primary score. Gets a +2 increase at epic from epic destiny. [*]We look at a PC at levels 1,6,11,16,21,26, and 21. [*]The PC pays his taxes: he takes expertise and focus. [*]The PC gains a +2 magic weapon/implement at level 6, and upgrades it at every 6 levels thereafter. At level 6 he also gains gear granting a +2 item bonus to damage (IAoP / Staff of Ruin), which increases to +4 at lv.16 and +6 at lv.26. [*]At-will attacks hit for 1d8 + primary mod. I round the average of the damage die to 5 because I find that half point of damage everywhere annoying. [*] Encounters deal an extra 5 damage at levels 1-7, 10 damage at levels 11-17, and 15 damage at levels 23-27. [*] No other modifiers are considered. [/LIST] That gives us the damage figures for an unoptimized non-striker with no real focus on damage. Level Hit% Dmg. on AW hit 1 0.6 9 6 0.65 14 11 0.65 17 16 0.65 21 21 0.7 30 26 0.65 33 30 0.6 34 I also calculated damage for a basic unoptimized striker, using the same assumptions as above (i.e. no extra damage from feats, items, PPs and other factors is considered), but assuming that all its attack powers have some extra damage. This striker would hit for the same damage as the previous PC plus: [LIST] [*]An extra 3 damage/tier, from striker extra damage feature. [*]An extra 3 damage/tier, from powers. [/LIST] This amounts to a 6 damage/tier difference between striker and non-striker, which is roughly equivalent to what you'd get from a d6/tier (striker feature) plus a secondary mod added to damage in powers like Sly flourish. The numbers for this striker would be: Level Hit% Dmg. on AW hit 1 0.6 15 6 0.65 20 11 0.65 29 16 0.65 33 21 0.7 48 26 0.65 51 30 0.6 52 So for these (unoptimized and simplified!) characters, the striker would be dealing 50% more damage than the non-striker. I then compared these figures with the stats of a monster of the PC's level, ending up with the following values for at-will DPR, turns to kill a monster with at-will attacks, and turns to kill a monster with at-wills and encounters. Non-Striker Level DPR K(AW) K(Enc) 1 5.65 4.96 4.07 6 9.75 6.97 5.95 11 11.9 9.08 6.97 16 14.7 10.07 8.03 21 22.5 8.36 7.69 26 23.15 9.85 8.55 30 22.1 11.76 10.41 Striker Level DPR K(AW) K(Enc) 1 9.25 3.03 2.49 6 13.65 4.98 4.25 11 19.70 5.48 4.21 16 22.50 6.58 5.24 21 35.10 5.36 4.93 26 34.85 6.54 5.68 30 32.90 7.90 6.99 So, at worst, the unoptimized non-striker PC should kill a monster in ~4 attacks at level 1 and ~10 at level 30, and the equivalent striker would do it in 2.5 attacks at level 1, and 7 at level 30. These numbers are about what I'd expect for heroic characters, but have awfully long encounters at epic. Then again, any kind of optimization should increase the damage substantially. At any rate, this provides a handy guideline for the worst case scenario. I also have run the numbers for higher level monsters, but this is going too long already ;) [/QUOTE]

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