Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Avoiding "Glut" (Maneuvers, tricks and other options)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="GM Dave" data-source="post: 5907897" data-attributes="member: 6687992"><p>Glut is not the problem.</p><p></p><p>Magic the Gathering produces how many new cards in each set launch? They have a new set launch how many times a year? They've been doing this for how many years now?</p><p></p><p>If DnD has a spell, martial, tricks glut problem then what does MtG have?</p><p></p><p>It is un-managed Glut that is the problem.</p><p></p><p>For example, if you keep dumping everything on the floor of a room then potentially you can see it all and find what you want fairly quickly. That is the theory of un-managed mess (I often use this system in my home life).</p><p></p><p>The trouble is that the more things in the pile on the floor the more time you have to spend scrutinizing to examine and discard things you want and do not want. A large enough pile in one room and they'll start assigning a number to your level of hoard.</p><p></p><p>If you can then the improvement is to start to divide things within the one room into more rooms along related lines. Tools go to the workshop. Outdoor items go in the garage. Cookware goes in the kitchen.</p><p></p><p>You divide things into categories that helps a person look for the item along related lines or themes. In MtG you could divide things by colour, by type of card (creature, artifact, instant), or other.</p><p></p><p>Multiple labels help you to further keep the pile under control as you now have a section of the kitchen devoted to spices, a section devoted to flatware, a section devoted to cooking pans. </p><p></p><p>Labels help you keep things in places where you can then look and compare. You could have a card box in MtG devoted to Green cards that have spots for land, spots for creatures (ordered by mana cost), spots for instants, spots for enchantments, etc. Now, when you are looking for a creature card that costs 3 mana to cast then you know where to look and have your choices together for a direct comparison and decision on merits.</p><p></p><p>Lastly, you need to every so often review your piles and re-order the clutter. MtG has two ways that they do this. They often allow in their regular tournament contests only the more recent sets of cards to be used (other cards are only allowed in special tournaments) plus a set of 'core' cards (that changes more slowly or at least it did compared to the booster sets ~ sorry I have not played MtG in the last few years). While there is a multiple year glut of cards that potentially exist, the active players only have a smaller amount of cards that they really need to be familiar with and proficient in using. Some boosters will bring in a wild new ability for a while but that ability will 'fade' out along with the strategy surrounding it after a number of months.</p><p></p><p>There is still a core for consistency but this too can grow and evolve but at a slower rate then the boosters that are provided to satisfy people with an interest in the next shiny thing in the room.</p><p></p><p>What does this teach us of glut in DnD?</p><p></p><p>1> The designers have to make sure to have some labeling on the information they provide. The word 'feat' or 'trick' is not enough if there are going to be hundreds of things with the same title. Organization by labeling is a designer/developer responsibility and it needs to carry over to any products that are produced after the initial launch and by all 3rd party developers. They all need to use the same label system.</p><p></p><p>2> Information is best given in themes. Each booster set has a 'theme' that connects the abilities together. This makes it easier for someone to look at the information and decide if it is for them. If 'fire' is a them then have a series of feats, tricks, spells, with that theme. Make sure to label the theme; so, people can know all those items are related.</p><p></p><p>3> Have a core and a series of themes. The core should change slowly and may accept popular ideas from the theme (for example Fireball is Core and Bigby's Burning Fist might be theme). Powers in the theme should have an open play value in Living Campaigns, Encounters, and other play settings of a limited period. People can then choose to keep or reject a theme from their home campaign game based upon their or a GM ruling. The official ruling would be the themes are only connected to published adventures and other things within a set period (This avoids the trouble of someone new to the hobby being told that to run an adventure they need to try and acquire 20 different sources of material).</p><p></p><p>4> The core should stay to a constant size of main ideas. It is all too easy to start adding everything in themes to the core but that is the way to quickly bloat the core. The core has to remain a steady point on which people can get their bearings and achieve results without having to master hundreds of specialized books. The core may change over time and it should evolve but that should be through a decision to replace something with something else rather than by constantly adding.</p><p></p><p>If WotC uses something like these four ideas then they can have a large amount of glut but still keep it lean and manageable for players to use. It can also have plenty of flavour for the player that likes to buy the new shiny for something to add to their next character concept.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GM Dave, post: 5907897, member: 6687992"] Glut is not the problem. Magic the Gathering produces how many new cards in each set launch? They have a new set launch how many times a year? They've been doing this for how many years now? If DnD has a spell, martial, tricks glut problem then what does MtG have? It is un-managed Glut that is the problem. For example, if you keep dumping everything on the floor of a room then potentially you can see it all and find what you want fairly quickly. That is the theory of un-managed mess (I often use this system in my home life). The trouble is that the more things in the pile on the floor the more time you have to spend scrutinizing to examine and discard things you want and do not want. A large enough pile in one room and they'll start assigning a number to your level of hoard. If you can then the improvement is to start to divide things within the one room into more rooms along related lines. Tools go to the workshop. Outdoor items go in the garage. Cookware goes in the kitchen. You divide things into categories that helps a person look for the item along related lines or themes. In MtG you could divide things by colour, by type of card (creature, artifact, instant), or other. Multiple labels help you to further keep the pile under control as you now have a section of the kitchen devoted to spices, a section devoted to flatware, a section devoted to cooking pans. Labels help you keep things in places where you can then look and compare. You could have a card box in MtG devoted to Green cards that have spots for land, spots for creatures (ordered by mana cost), spots for instants, spots for enchantments, etc. Now, when you are looking for a creature card that costs 3 mana to cast then you know where to look and have your choices together for a direct comparison and decision on merits. Lastly, you need to every so often review your piles and re-order the clutter. MtG has two ways that they do this. They often allow in their regular tournament contests only the more recent sets of cards to be used (other cards are only allowed in special tournaments) plus a set of 'core' cards (that changes more slowly or at least it did compared to the booster sets ~ sorry I have not played MtG in the last few years). While there is a multiple year glut of cards that potentially exist, the active players only have a smaller amount of cards that they really need to be familiar with and proficient in using. Some boosters will bring in a wild new ability for a while but that ability will 'fade' out along with the strategy surrounding it after a number of months. There is still a core for consistency but this too can grow and evolve but at a slower rate then the boosters that are provided to satisfy people with an interest in the next shiny thing in the room. What does this teach us of glut in DnD? 1> The designers have to make sure to have some labeling on the information they provide. The word 'feat' or 'trick' is not enough if there are going to be hundreds of things with the same title. Organization by labeling is a designer/developer responsibility and it needs to carry over to any products that are produced after the initial launch and by all 3rd party developers. They all need to use the same label system. 2> Information is best given in themes. Each booster set has a 'theme' that connects the abilities together. This makes it easier for someone to look at the information and decide if it is for them. If 'fire' is a them then have a series of feats, tricks, spells, with that theme. Make sure to label the theme; so, people can know all those items are related. 3> Have a core and a series of themes. The core should change slowly and may accept popular ideas from the theme (for example Fireball is Core and Bigby's Burning Fist might be theme). Powers in the theme should have an open play value in Living Campaigns, Encounters, and other play settings of a limited period. People can then choose to keep or reject a theme from their home campaign game based upon their or a GM ruling. The official ruling would be the themes are only connected to published adventures and other things within a set period (This avoids the trouble of someone new to the hobby being told that to run an adventure they need to try and acquire 20 different sources of material). 4> The core should stay to a constant size of main ideas. It is all too easy to start adding everything in themes to the core but that is the way to quickly bloat the core. The core has to remain a steady point on which people can get their bearings and achieve results without having to master hundreds of specialized books. The core may change over time and it should evolve but that should be through a decision to replace something with something else rather than by constantly adding. If WotC uses something like these four ideas then they can have a large amount of glut but still keep it lean and manageable for players to use. It can also have plenty of flavour for the player that likes to buy the new shiny for something to add to their next character concept. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Avoiding "Glut" (Maneuvers, tricks and other options)
Top