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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Avoiding "Glut" (Maneuvers, tricks and other options)
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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 5910613" data-attributes="member: 51942"><p>The limited matrix is part of the problem. Because prerequisites are so limiting, it means that to achieve a particular feat, you need to plan ahead <em>extensively.</em> So while limiting the number of immediate choices seems to help, it doesn't in practice. It just means that people end up reading a lot of stuff they never intend to use, which is boring, plain and simple.</p><p></p><p>What if I want to build a character that throws around his enemy by hitting them with a hammer? There's likely racial feats that interact with hammers and with pushing, and possibly with pushing hammers. There are several weapon-wielding classes, and some will likely have key powers and feats to enable this build. I'll never find the right rules without a significant system mastery. Especially if it turns out that I should be using a pole-arm for some feats (is there a weapon that's both?) or that this particular combination for sliding is a little easier so if I'm not too picky about pushing vs. sliding I could look at that...</p><p></p><p>So the limited immediate choices for a particular existing PC doesn't really prevent the problem; rather it's an excuse to release a glut of hyper-specialized feats. It's better to release fewer feats that combine in interesting fashions (retaining the fun of making interesting builds) while limiting the total number of character options rather than limit the interactions with unlimited numbers of options.</p><p></p><p>Here too: more general feats & powers would help. If the feats & powers available to the paladin were largely also available to the cavalier this would be less of a problem.</p><p></p><p>[sblock=For example<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious :]" data-shortname=":]" />So: fewer powers & feats, but no fewer choices by virtue of more generally applicable rules. Side benefit: this means that the individual rules can be worked out in more detail. Want to make a lightning bolt with an area of effect that doesn't quite fit the standard areas? Now you have space to describe those specifics. Want to describe the effect of a powerful strike on nearby objects? Want to make a tactically interesting surprising roundhouse strike by forcing attacks to resolve in clockwise or counterclockwise fashion, allies included, but without the ability to strike through solid terrain so that the user needs to take into account the state of the battlefield? You've got the space.</p><p></p><p>I'm advocating fewer feats but with fewer prerequisites. Rather than limit a roundhouse strike to a club wielded by a gnomish monk, let it take a penalty to hits equal to the armor check penalty, and reward high speed and small stature somehow, but leave the implementation flexible enough to be broadly usable.[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eamon, post: 5910613, member: 51942"] The limited matrix is part of the problem. Because prerequisites are so limiting, it means that to achieve a particular feat, you need to plan ahead [I]extensively.[/I] So while limiting the number of immediate choices seems to help, it doesn't in practice. It just means that people end up reading a lot of stuff they never intend to use, which is boring, plain and simple. What if I want to build a character that throws around his enemy by hitting them with a hammer? There's likely racial feats that interact with hammers and with pushing, and possibly with pushing hammers. There are several weapon-wielding classes, and some will likely have key powers and feats to enable this build. I'll never find the right rules without a significant system mastery. Especially if it turns out that I should be using a pole-arm for some feats (is there a weapon that's both?) or that this particular combination for sliding is a little easier so if I'm not too picky about pushing vs. sliding I could look at that... So the limited immediate choices for a particular existing PC doesn't really prevent the problem; rather it's an excuse to release a glut of hyper-specialized feats. It's better to release fewer feats that combine in interesting fashions (retaining the fun of making interesting builds) while limiting the total number of character options rather than limit the interactions with unlimited numbers of options. Here too: more general feats & powers would help. If the feats & powers available to the paladin were largely also available to the cavalier this would be less of a problem. [sblock=For example:]So: fewer powers & feats, but no fewer choices by virtue of more generally applicable rules. Side benefit: this means that the individual rules can be worked out in more detail. Want to make a lightning bolt with an area of effect that doesn't quite fit the standard areas? Now you have space to describe those specifics. Want to describe the effect of a powerful strike on nearby objects? Want to make a tactically interesting surprising roundhouse strike by forcing attacks to resolve in clockwise or counterclockwise fashion, allies included, but without the ability to strike through solid terrain so that the user needs to take into account the state of the battlefield? You've got the space. I'm advocating fewer feats but with fewer prerequisites. Rather than limit a roundhouse strike to a club wielded by a gnomish monk, let it take a penalty to hits equal to the armor check penalty, and reward high speed and small stature somehow, but leave the implementation flexible enough to be broadly usable.[/sblock] [/QUOTE]
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Avoiding "Glut" (Maneuvers, tricks and other options)
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