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<blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 7410398" data-attributes="member: 6688937">Totally disagree about D&amp;D being designed for that. At least not non-4e D&amp;D. I've seen way too many orcs in a 20'x20' room for that. Penalties for disengaging, no real way for pair of dueling warriors to slide across the battlefield without at least one of them taking extra attacks, no solid mechanics for sideways goals that aren't reducing HP.Indeed, perhaps as an outgrowth of its adversarial past, non-4e D&amp;D terms all such activities in terms of &quot;difficulties&quot; and how to restrict them, not how to make them integral to the narrative flow of combat.I've played plenty of other games (Fate and Dungeon World leap immediately to mind as the most talked about nowadays), where the fights had a lot more cinematic action going on. D&amp;D just can't seem to get out of its own way. Constantly playing &quot;mother may I?&quot; with the dice and &quot;action economy&quot;. Yes, an action scene in a movie has a lot going on. How much of it do we really need to roll for and adjudicate mechanically? Lets say our hero is going to fight his way past 6 goons down a stairwell. Is it more or less exciting at the table if that is resolved in one mechanical interaction or 18?For my money, that whole thing is one beat. Because we're trying to answer (in movie land) the dramatic question &quot;will the hero make to the door?&quot; With stakes set by the surrounding fiction. Will he make it..&quot;in time to for the heroic thing?&quot; Will he make it &quot;in time to see the BBEG carry away the princess?&quot; Whatever it is, it isn't &quot;Will he deal 6 points of damage to mook #4, so that he doesn't take grant advantage to mook #6 on his opportunity attack?&quot;But D&amp;D isn't designed to answer dramatic questions (at least not upfront and in a straightforward manner). That's not where it started and not what its about. Its home is as a puzzle game set in a deadly maze. Fighting, such as it is, is almost as much (or more) about resource management as it is tactics. The critical questions after a typical workaday fight aren't dramatic questions, but resource questions. &quot;Do we have enough juice to go on without pausing or expending more resources to recover?&quot; That is the only question (or variant of) that I always hear around the D&amp;D table.And just to be clear! There is nothing wrong with enjoying the tactical aspects of D&amp;D! If you're keen on making all those rolls, and moving your mini around go ahead. But don't lets pretend that those orcs in a room are there for a dramatic event. They're there to drain X amount of resources.And to be doubly clear! I'm not a huge 4e guy! I found all the X's and O's to be a distraction and combat move too slowly. Dropped me out of warp every time.Again, my $.02.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ratskinner, post: 7410398, member: 6688937"] Totally disagree about D&D being designed for that. At least not non-4e D&D. I've seen way too many orcs in a 20'x20' room for that. Penalties for disengaging, no real way for pair of dueling warriors to slide across the battlefield without at least one of them taking extra attacks, no solid mechanics for sideways goals that aren't reducing HP. Indeed, perhaps as an outgrowth of its adversarial past, non-4e D&D terms all such activities in terms of "difficulties" and how to restrict them, not how to make them integral to the narrative flow of combat. I've played plenty of other games (Fate and Dungeon World leap immediately to mind as the most talked about nowadays), where the fights had a lot more cinematic action going on. D&D just can't seem to get out of its own way. Constantly playing "mother may I?" with the dice and "action economy". Yes, an action scene in a movie has a lot going on. How much of it do we really need to roll for and adjudicate mechanically? Lets say our hero is going to fight his way past 6 goons down a stairwell. Is it more or less exciting at the table if that is resolved in one mechanical interaction or 18? For my money, that whole thing is one beat. Because we're trying to answer (in movie land) the dramatic question "will the hero make to the door?" With stakes set by the surrounding fiction. Will he make it.."in time to for the heroic thing?" Will he make it "in time to see the BBEG carry away the princess?" Whatever it is, it isn't "Will he deal 6 points of damage to mook #4, so that he doesn't take grant advantage to mook #6 on his opportunity attack?" But D&D isn't designed to answer dramatic questions (at least not upfront and in a straightforward manner). That's not where it started and not what its about. Its home is as a puzzle game set in a deadly maze. Fighting, such as it is, is almost as much (or more) about resource management as it is tactics. The critical questions after a typical workaday fight aren't dramatic questions, but resource questions. "Do we have enough juice to go on without pausing or expending more resources to recover?" That is the only question (or variant of) that I always hear around the D&D table. And just to be clear! There is nothing wrong with enjoying the tactical aspects of D&D! If you're keen on making all those rolls, and moving your mini around go ahead. But don't lets pretend that those orcs in a room are there for a dramatic event. They're there to drain X amount of resources. And to be doubly clear! I'm not a huge 4e guy! I found all the X's and O's to be a distraction and combat move too slowly. Dropped me out of warp every time. Again, my $.02. [/QUOTE]

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