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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ddougan" data-source="post: 1290297" data-attributes="member: 11480">Please identify the attack on you in my response.The Mongoose boards had a significant amount of traffic relating to the offensive material. And that is just what I seen have been made aware of it on these boards (many of the threads are speaking out against wholesale removal of messages from the boards relating to the offensive material in the book).If Mongoose apologised for this, what level of people did they consider valuable? They didn't apologise to just me, because I never posted to the Mongoose forums - so obviously there were enough other people contacting them to have demanded an apology. Already people on these boards are saying they will not make a decision until they see the book - I dare say some people will even purchase the book to see what all the fuss is about. I myself bought it because I love the B5 line, and did not know there was such offensive material in it - so I hardly think sales to this stage are a realistic measure of acceptance of the material in the book as not being racist.And tell me, how many people does it take to be offended before you consider their opinion valid? 100? 1000? 1 million?I based my opinion on the material I read. I think it speaks volumes. I've given examples of the things that offended me so people can make up their own mind. Mongoose have apparently apologised for this - which suggests there was something to apologise for. (I still can't find the thread on their sites - only a post from a Mongoose representative that did not sound like an official apology - but it wasn't from the named rep that has been mentioned, so it could still be out there ... hard to find).I was not seeking to be offended by that book. I started reading it, and then became horrified by the amount of offensive material contained inside.Again, at what level do you consider other people's opinions to be valuable?You claimed that you playtested the book and found no problems. Either you considered the material as part of your playtesting, or you did not. If you did, then you failed to catch it. Many people (enough for Mongoose to apologise) have since complained about it (and statisically, the people that complain are a small percentage of the people offended).If you did not, then why did you use a "I'm a playtester and there was no problems" excuse?When does everyone I've shown this book to become many? When do the other people who have picked this book up and posted on these forums and Mongoose forums become many?Do you need a majority of readers being accepted before you accept something as racism? What about 49%? What about 40%? What about 25%? What level of offended people did Mongoose require before they apologised?Your entire argument here seems to me to be one of putting me on the back foot - that *I* have misread everything into this book. That *I* am at fault for being offended. But the book is at fault.Ah, I see the reason why you weren't offended by the Irish related slurs - you actually believe them. Even above you claim terrorism is a large part of Irish history - I find that as offensive as the quotes in the book, and I'd either like an apology or some evidence to back up your claim.Whilst the 20th century contained a number of individual terrorist campaigns (including the terrible years of the Troubles that are hopefully behind us forever), where do you think that Irish history is filled with terrorism? There have been a number of *wars* throughout Ireland's 800 year history whilst under English and British rule. Do you consider the 9 Years War terrorism? Do you consider the Orange/James campaign terrorism? Do you consider the Irish War of Independence terrorism? (Do you think that America's War of Independence was a mass act of terrorism???)Turning to what most people think of when they think of terrorism in Ireland, namely the recent Troubles. The Observer or the Guardian (sorry, not sure which, I read them both) once quoted a British Security Forces Intelligence contact as claiming that the IRA had 600 active members, and possibly that many again in active support (safe houses etc). Other Republican paramilitaries were smaller in size. The UDA was larger (but not by much), and other Loyalist paramilitaries were smaller. Their total figures put terrorists and active supporters as under 3 thousand. In a country with 4.5 Million people, that is 0.06% of the population. Thats 6 for every 10,000 people. If only the criminal element was as low as that, or do you think Ireland is a nation of criminals as well?Please, tell me how you can accept the book suggesting the nation of Ireland is a terrorist one from those figures.Also, from the number of Irish men and women who have been killed by the English forces and government policies, please tell me how you accept the book suggesting that England is the sole victim in Irish history. Did Tony Blair - as British PM - not publically apologise for their role in the Irish famine? You know, when British troops overwatched the export of grain from Ireland (then wholly a part of the Britain Empire) - whilst over a million of the population starved?From page 64 of the EA Fact Book:"GermanyThe nation-state known as Germany is one of the most militaristic countries to ever march troops across a border. When its citizens were not fighting in wars as mercenaries or raiding their neighbours and seizing territory for their own uses, they were setting out to conquer entire other nations wholesale."Please tell me where above the book does not suggest that the entire German nation - and its citizens - through its history, are not a bunch of warmongers.This same old excuse again - "its only a game". Is it still a game if some people take the racist slurs in the book away from the table and play them out in real life? If racist and stereotypical views in the book are used in the playground, in the work place, is it still only a game? What about when people get to hear the slurs and feelings are hurt?What about in the bar in the evening, is it still only a game? What about when the bottles are smashed and people get physically hurt?Bottom line - racism is racism. Its indefensible. The UK and European Union have charters and laws to such effect. So does much of the rest of the world. The problem I have is how people can then defend it. If Mongoose apologised for it - doesn't that suggest the problem was present? Free speech comes with responsibility. I believe that Warner Bros and Mongoose have failed to act responsibly in curving the authors free speech in material that is targetted at the gaming audience. I don't have a problem with people writing or publishing the likes of Mein Kampf - that's free speech. But to have that offensive material presented in a manner which suggests it is socially acceptable, well, we all know where that led to.I have the offending EA Fact Book material that was published sitting infront of me. You don't know what the author intended, because he could subsequently claim anything (that's why we have legal process). The only thing that is out there is what was published. Racial and negative stereotyping in a gaming product.Ah - so I have to base what I consider racially offensive on what the person distributing the material thinks of it?"Here, we're going to need all the black people to go to the back of the bus. White folk only at the front.""Isn't that a bit racist?""Oh no, we just like the half and half look."And me taking offense is me running riot. And you are here to save me from my own stupid analysis? Again, your defence of the book is simply to attack my feelings as being unreasonable. I'm sorry, but any respect I had for your arguments is on hold until the terrorist slur you made above is resolved.I based everything I have said on what is in the book. I've given a number of examples so people can see what I'm talking about. Again, your defence of the book seems to be to attack me.I still cannot find this apology. I'm not claiming its not there, I'd just appreciate a link to it - its obviously not very accessible.</blockquote>

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