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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
BAB and Saves vs Skills? (Why these numbers?)
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<blockquote data-quote="DanMcS" data-source="post: 1194646" data-attributes="member: 6530"><p>With limited numbers of spells per day, saves going up as quickly as skills would neuter spellcasters. Spell DCs are 10 + stat modifier + spell level, which by higher levels tends to approach 20-25.</p><p></p><p>Base saves vary from 6 to 12 by high levels, plus stat mods. Cancel out the stat mods, as they'll tend to be equivalent for evenly matched characters, and you get a save of d20 + [6-12] versus DCs of 15 to 19 for the powerful spells.</p><p></p><p>What you end up with (roughly) is that characters can usually make their good saves versus appropriate opponents, and often fail their bad ones, but have a chance of success or failure no matter what. Over the party, it balances out, because not everyone has the same good or bad save, so one spell won't usually take out everyone.</p><p></p><p>If saves went up faster (more like skills or BAB), spellcasters would get whupped.</p><p></p><p>Likewise for AC versus BAB, if it went up about as fast as BAB, combat would be interminable, since hps are also going up. Since D&D has scaling hps, it doesn't need scaling AC.</p><p></p><p>The system is pretty carefully balanced as is. It's not the only balance that could be struck, but if you change one of the parts, you pretty much need to redo the whole thing.</p><p></p><p>I've been working on writing a skill-based system for d20, with spellcasting, attack, defense, saves, etc governed by skills just like other activities are. It's a fat lot of work to get it to come out fair, but it seems doable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DanMcS, post: 1194646, member: 6530"] With limited numbers of spells per day, saves going up as quickly as skills would neuter spellcasters. Spell DCs are 10 + stat modifier + spell level, which by higher levels tends to approach 20-25. Base saves vary from 6 to 12 by high levels, plus stat mods. Cancel out the stat mods, as they'll tend to be equivalent for evenly matched characters, and you get a save of d20 + [6-12] versus DCs of 15 to 19 for the powerful spells. What you end up with (roughly) is that characters can usually make their good saves versus appropriate opponents, and often fail their bad ones, but have a chance of success or failure no matter what. Over the party, it balances out, because not everyone has the same good or bad save, so one spell won't usually take out everyone. If saves went up faster (more like skills or BAB), spellcasters would get whupped. Likewise for AC versus BAB, if it went up about as fast as BAB, combat would be interminable, since hps are also going up. Since D&D has scaling hps, it doesn't need scaling AC. The system is pretty carefully balanced as is. It's not the only balance that could be struck, but if you change one of the parts, you pretty much need to redo the whole thing. I've been working on writing a skill-based system for d20, with spellcasting, attack, defense, saves, etc governed by skills just like other activities are. It's a fat lot of work to get it to come out fair, but it seems doable. [/QUOTE]
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Community
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BAB and Saves vs Skills? (Why these numbers?)
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