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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 2220789" data-attributes="member: 8835">I was thinking about Iron Lore and house rules, and AC and stuff when I had the thought, "why isn't BAB also and AC modifier?"Now I know there are feats that allow you to SHIFT BAB to AC, but that's not what I'm talking about.Consider 2 twin fighters, Bill and Bob.  Both have 10 STR and 10 DEX.  They're both 1st level.  They have no armor, and let's say they both use a longsword.BAB +1AC 10Both need 9's to hit each other.  A slug fest between them would come down to dice rolls and damage (who rolled better).Now, a couple years later, Bill and Bob meet again.  Oddly enough, they went through the same adventures (different DM), and both end up washed on the beach.  They're 20th level now, with naught but a longswordBAB +20AC 10Now, they need 2's or better to hit each other (-10 actually, but 1's always miss and my dice don't go negative).Now it is a fact of real fighting that higher skilled fighters are harder to hit than low-skilled fighters (I've got the bruises to prove it).  One can argue that certain styles sacrifice defense more than offense (and vice versa), or that the ratio of hitting skill is not even to blocking skill, but let's not quibble too much.I would argue that a low level attacker should find the following true:hitting high level person is harder than hitting a low level personIn that case, our 20th level fighters would have:BAB +20AC 30and need 10's to hit each other (when you apply this rule to the 1st level versions, they'll need 10's as well).So assuming you resolve the problem of magic stuff skewing the numbers, what kind of impact do you think BAB as AC modifier would have on the game?With no magic armor, but the best armor money could buy, I guess the theoretical top AC is roughly AC 42 (10base + 20 level + 10 full plate + 2 shield).  There'd be some variance for Dexterous characters and such.  But that's a pretty hard to hit guy.  Compare that to some monsters at CR20...Black Dragon, Wyrm, +42 to-hit, AC 39 (all CR20 dragons seem comparable)Balor +33 to-hit, AC 35Pit Fiend +30 to-hit, AC 40Tarrasque +57 to-hit, AC 35As you can see, the CR20 monsters get pretty hard to hit (and hit back just as hard), yet without magic gear, the PC is screwed in the fight.  Heck, I'm not sure that the best magic gear Bob could get would put him in that camp (let's see fuzzy D&D math is 10base + 15 (+5 plate armor) + 7 (+5 big shield) + 5 (ring of protection) = 37, which is comparable to my BABasAC idea).  For those good at D&D math, what is the correct max AC a fighter could get?I'm intrigued by this idea, because in the games I've played in or run, I've not seen PC's armor classes keep pace with the monsters (except in a few power gamer players' hands).  This doesn't quite make sense to me.  It seems like a way to simulate the skill in not getting hit, without heavy reliance on magic armors (granted, with both BABasAC and magic armor, that would really throw a wrench into the works).Thoughts?Janx</blockquote>

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