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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mark Chance" data-source="post: 1022544" data-attributes="member: 2795">Re: Re: Re: Re: reSee? Perceptions of beauty are culturally conditioned. And I'd never stoop to "oedipal complex mutterings." Freud was a fraud. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Talk to teenagers. Your standards have not shifted, but standards have (as you yourself admit). I remember showing my students Casablanca and being amazed that almost none of my students agreed with me that Ingrid Bergman is a beautiful woman.No one's said anything to the contrary to the best of my recollection. Immersing oneself in, for example, Madison Avenue is consensual involvement. Since you and I have apparently declined such involvement, is it any wonder that we both disagree with the "conventional wisdom"?I think you're reading way too much into what is a basically self-evident statement: Perceptions of beauty are culturally conditioned. That applies as much to women and as to men. It is also a markedly different claim than saying that perceptions of beauty are culturally determined or are the result of genetic programming.</blockquote>