Babylon 5: Lost Tails

[Merlion]

While trying not to get too far into the forums "forbidden zones..".....its interesting to me that JMS, who is supposedly an "athiest" (an often misused word) injects so much, shall we say pro-spiritual content into his work.

I think the Minbari belief system is pretty much his own.

I liked the Lost Tails, for the most part. Nothing super duper, but fun.

I thought the part where Sheriden's secretary or whatever tells him the reporter lady is there and he says "Tell her I'm dead and throw her down the stairs," was especially funny.

 

[Mouseferatu]

First off, random pedantry: It's "Lost Tales." A "lost tail" would be a cat or a dog who can't find its backside.

While trying not to get too far into the forums "forbidden zones..".....its interesting to me that JMS, who is supposedly an "athiest" (an often misused word) injects so much, shall we say pro-spiritual content into his work.

I've often found that atheist and agnostic writers (myself included in the latter category) are often some of the most fascinated with religious and spiritual matters in fiction (again, myself included). I'm a huge fan of religious horror, such as movies like the Exorcist, Stigmata, and the Prophecy. I really enjoy playing, and creating material for, clerics and paladins. And while I've not yet had the chance to make a truly devout character the focus of any of my long fiction, I'd really love to do so (and the protagonist of my upcoming Ravenloft novel, while not truly devout, is at least partly defined by a loss of faith).

(Don't worry, that's not really a spoiler. )

Not sure why it is, but the subject's fascinating to me.

 

[Merlion]

First off, random pedantry: It's "Lost Tales." A "lost tail" would be a cat or a dog who can't find its backside.



I've often found that atheist and agnostic writers (myself included in the latter category) are often some of the most fascinated with religious and spiritual matters in fiction (again, myself included). I'm a huge fan of religious horror, such as movies like the Exorcist, Stigmata, and the Prophecy. I really enjoy playing, and creating material for, clerics and paladins. And while I've not yet had the chance to make a truly devout character the focus of any of my long fiction, I'd really love to do so (and the protagonist of my upcoming Ravenloft novel, while not truly devout, is at least partly defined by a loss of faith).

(Don't worry, that's not really a spoiler. )

Not sure why it is, but the subject's fascinating to me.

Well, I think a lot of it also has to do with misused terminology. An Atheist is someone who doesnt believe in a god or gods. It doesnt make the person a materialist or secularist necessarily, but often its used in that way. I've even known people who identify as "atheists" who in reality simply werent members or supporters of a specific religion. I think JMS likely falls into one of these catagories.

The reason I tend to think this is that Babylon 5 not only often addresses and features spiritual and religious matters, it often seems to take a "pro spiritual" (if perhaps also anti organized religion) stance. As oposed to, say, Star Trek, where spirituality and religion are nearly nonexistant, and when they are there they are generally poo-pooed or end up being simply advanced aliens or lost supercomputers or whatever.

Its one of the things I love and find so refreshing about Babylon 5. Of course theres also the fact that while it is sci fi, its structure is very much like high fantasy..

 

[Mouseferatu]

It doesnt make the person a materialist or secularist necessarily, but often its used in that way. I've even known people who identify as "atheists" who in reality simply werent members or supporters of a specific religion. I think JMS likely falls into one of these catagories.

Actually, I've seen, in several interviews and message board posts, JMS say in so many words that he does not believe in God/gods. So at least in his case, the term "atheist" is accurate.

Its one of the things I love and find so refreshing about Babylon 5. Of course theres also the fact that while it is sci fi, its structure is very much like high fantasy..

I've noticed that myself. I write almost nothing but fantasy, but I consider JMS one of my primary inspirations, and that's one of the (many) reasons why.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Actually, I've seen, in several interviews and message board posts, JMS say in so many words that he does not believe in God/gods. So at least in his case, the term "atheist" is accurate.



I've noticed that myself. I write almost nothing but fantasy, but I consider JMS one of my primary inspirations, and that's one of the (many) reasons why.

I also see myself as an Atheist, but I am still often fascinated by religion and faith.
Where did it come from? Why do we "keep it around"? How does it affect those that believe (and how do they affect others)? What does it mean to be religious/faithful?
I think JMS is the same, and he also enjoys exploring it with his stories.

 

[Merlion]

Actually, I've seen, in several interviews and message board posts, JMS say in so many words that he does not believe in God/gods. So at least in his case, the term "atheist" is accurate.
.

Yes. But, judging solely from his work, I think perhaps he does believe in something beyond the physical. I think the Minbari belief system...and also G'Kars speech at one point about shining a light on the wall...wherein sentient beings are believed to have souls as fragments of the Universe, trying to figure itself out, may very well be taken right from his own worldview. Many characters seem to speak of The Universe in a manner much like God.

Like I said, not believing in deities doesnt make one a materialist, or believer only in the physical.


And there are certainly many elements in B5 which are clearly anti-organized-religion. The first segment of Lost Tales, for example....when Lochley tells the demon thingy that it "isnt part of" mankind's "new dream", as well as of course the end of the fourth season where the Younger Races basically tell the First Ones to take a hike, strike me as rejections of rigid, controlling organized religion, but not necessarily of spirituality.


It definitely makes for some great stories, and I always find it refreshing for anyone, especially in sci fi/fantasy to tackle those things in such an open minded, not totally hostile way.

 

[Meloncov]

Yes. But, judging solely from his work, I think perhaps he does believe in something beyond the physical. I think the Minbari belief system...and also G'Kars speech at one point about shining a light on the wall...wherein sentient beings are believed to have souls as fragments of the Universe, trying to figure itself out, may very well be taken right from his own worldview. Many characters seem to speak of The Universe in a manner much like God.

I think this is less a matter of JMS being a pantheist, and more a matter of him realizing that religion is inherently part of the human expierence, and that it can be a force for both good (the minbari, G'kar) or evil (First Ones, Believers).

 

[Merlion]

I think this is less a matter of JMS being a pantheist, and more a matter of him realizing that religion is inherently part of the human expierence, and that it can be a force for both good (the minbari, G'kar) or evil (First Ones, Believers).

Perhaps. But I personally tend to put a lot of my beliefs into my writing. And it is often relatively safe to feel that the points of view frequently expressed by the main/central/good guy characters of a story, especially one where views are clearly at play, probably match up pretty closely with the writers.


Especially coupled with the fact that most fantasy writers are people who maintain a strong sense of wonder and belief in things like magic...or at least the desire to believe these things.

No way to be sure of course, its just the feeling I've always gotten from B5

 

[Mouseferatu]

Perhaps. But I personally tend to put a lot of my beliefs into my writing. And it is often relatively safe to feel that the points of view frequently expressed by the main/central/good guy characters of a story, especially one where views are clearly at play, probably match up pretty closely with the writers.

Hmm... I don't think it's as safe a bet as you think. I know, from personal experience, that many of my favorite characters to write are those who don't share the same beliefs/spirituality that I do. (Unless you count "smart-ass" as a belief system. )

My point, though, is that it's really very dependent on the writer. There are, indeed, many writers who put their own beliefs and POV into their characters--but there are just as many who go the exact opposite route, and many more for whom it depends on the character and/or project.

 

[Meloncov]

Perhaps. But I personally tend to put a lot of my beliefs into my writing. And it is often relatively safe to feel that the points of view frequently expressed by the main/central/good guy characters of a story, especially one where views are clearly at play, probably match up pretty closely with the writers.

But which of the good guys would his views match up with? Geraboldi is agnostic, Sinclair and Sheridan seemingly nominally Christian (probably protestant), Ivanova Jewish, the Minbari pantheist, Franclin Foundationist (which appears to be based on modern Unitarianism), Lockley Catholic, G'kar a cross between Buddhism and Deism, and Kosh who-knows-what. There's no way that all of those could match JMS's beliefs.

Also, I've heard an interview where JMS says something to the effect of "I know they'll still be religion in the future. I may not like it, but it'll be there."