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Message: <blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 4278232" data-attributes="member: 25619">A "why don't people like 4e" thread -- move on if not interested.  But I tried to give 4e a chance . . . I went to WOTC's official 4e launch at Neumos in Seattle today.I have to say, it was a class act.  No charge, didn't even have to give contact info, and you get a free t-shirt and a free game.  Plus, the WOTC staffers were pleasant to all comers.But I'm depressed.  I think D&D is over.Maybe I'm just a bad edition-changer, but I think there's more to it.The last edition I was really EXCITED about was 2nd Edition.  I remember opening the PHB like it was Christmas morning, and being excited, but then saddened as I realized my current character -- a half-orc assassin -- was written out of the game.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />A few years of mixing AD&D and 2nd Edition together, I stopped playing at all.  For 6 years.Then I restarted it, with AD&D and Greyhawk, using the Keep on the Borderlands, with a friend who had also "fallen away" and his girlfriend (now wife for the past decade) who had never played.  This was 1996, and we were definitely playing in the Catacombs.  Nope, not the tunnels under our college that we used to sneak into, but the Catacombs in the early Christians in Rome sense -- we were underground, off the grid, a hidden minority playing an out of print edition in an out of print setting.  That's when I discovered the Greyhawk Community on AOL, and got hooked on talking about D&D on the 'net.Then in 1998, Greyhawk was revived by TSR.  Hurrah!  I was amazingly happy that I could get new stuff and that others could learn about my world.Then D&D went effectively bankrupt and stopped printing new stuff for what, 6 months?  Of course, you could still buy all the collectible DragonDice you wanted . . . which was none, thus the problem.When WOTC bought it, I was happy with the resumes involved and glad somebody still wanted to give D&D another try.  When 3e came out, I was glad new stuff was being printed again to keep the FLGS's in business and I was glad Greyhawk was the default setting, but the rules were just too different for me.  Ya know who DM'd me the first time, and convinced me to change?  Of course you do -- the "fallen away" player I had brought back to the game in 1996, who went on to start up a group that grew to have about 30 3e players.  Oh, and one of the guys I gamed with -- and snuck into tunnels with -- in college wrote several D20 adventures and even a hard cover.  So, cool, all love and appreciation to WOTC.When 3.5 came along, I immediately saw it was slightly better and almost fully compatible, so I switched immediately.But 4e?  Seems like a good enough game, but too darn far removed from D&D as we've always known it to actually be D&D.  The early adopter former "fallen away" guy thinks so too . . . other people I know range from overjoyed to sullen about 4e.Sigh.  I wish WOTC well, and the signs do seem to be good.  A lot of people may come back to the Dungeon and start gaming again with the positive press about a new, simple, fast-play game.But for me, I think it's back to the Catacombs, back to running an out of print edition and an out of print setting again.  Which feels sad . . .Yes, yes, 4e partisans, it can be done, I'm living proof playing in the Catacombs is possible.  But it's sad . . . I'm guessing this is what it feels like to be a Seattle Sonics fan (I don't care about basketball) and know "your" team has been sold off to Oklahoma City.  You get the need of the owner to make money, and you know it's just a business, and you know you can still follow basketball and even see NBA live (by driving 5 hrs down to Portland), but somehow, something just walked out the door and closed the door behind it, leaving you behind . . . What you thought was yours and at heart of your community of like-minded fellow, you've been reminded is just a game, just a business, a business that thinks you and your friends are suboptimally profitable customers, so you've being dumped . . .I'm not planning to move to Oklahoma City for just a game . . .</blockquote>

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