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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 564523" data-attributes="member: 5834">ReI really don't understand at all why people think Charisma is  a dump stat. There are so many classes that have useful class skills and abilities that are based on the Charisma ability.As a DM and player, I have found that a high Charisma is nearly essential for all classes save the Fighter or Barbarian. How are you running your games where Charisma is a dump stat? I certainly don't allow a person with an 8 Charisma to bluff his way past anything. His chances are fairly slim considering he will receive a minus on any opposed roll for bluff or diplomacy.Sure they can roleplay being a good talker, but if they have taken a poor Charisma I will not give them any kind of bonus no matter how good they lie. I just translate the conversation as if the person had an 8 Charisma. Even if the person creates a convinving lie, I would still assume that vocal tone and facial expressions negatively affected the bluff attempt. There are plenty of intelligent people with unattractive voices or who speak in monotonous tone. These aspects of Charisma also affect social interactions as much as looks or personality.As far as Charisma based powers, D&D has never had so many Charisma based abilities such as Sorcerer/Bard spellcasting, Cleric/Paladin turning, Paladin divine abilities, and a great many useful skills purely Charisma based. Even a wizard Enchantment specialist would benefit from having a high Charisma due to the opposed rolls required to command a charmed subject.I see no reason whatsoever to modify Charisma unless the DM is failing to use rolls to determine important social exchanges between the PC's and NPC's. Charisma is a highly necessary ability score that greatly impacts any game in 3rd edition D&D.And if you are one of those DM's who wishes to arbitrate roleplaying situations based upon the natural Charisma of your players, then get rid of the Charisma ability altogether. You can just tie divine abilities to another stat such as Wisdom.</blockquote>

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