[BADD] Let's talk...

[CRGreathouse]

... about the dragon conversions.

I was looking through the Adamantine dragon conversion and thought that the description and CR didn't seem to fit the other stats. Here's my chart (sorry for poor quality):

Quality             Juvenile silver            Wyrmling Adamantine
CR                    9                                 12
Treasure           x2                               x4
hp                     152                            138
feats                 5                                4
speed               40 ft, fly 150 ft (poor) 40 ft, fly 100 ft (poor)
breath damage 8d8                             2d12
breath DC          21                              21
AC                      24                              20
alternate breath Paralyzing gas (1d6+4) temporal stasis (Bytopia only; 1/day; 1d4+1)
spell-like            1/day – create water   N/A
spells                 3/3 as sorcerer            N/A
SQ                     immune to cold and acid DR 5/+1

Silver:
bite +19 (2d6+4), 2 claws +14 (1d8+2), 2 wings +14 (1d6+2), tail slap +14 (1d8+6)

Adamantine:
bite +19 (2d6+7), 2 claws +14 (1d8+3), 2 wings +14 (1d6+3), tail slap +14 (1d8+10)

Aren't these very similar despite their dissimilar CR? The silver has the advantage in most cases, but deals slightly less damage with its physical attacks. Should their CRs be this different?

 

[BOZ]

i think that was my first dragon conversion. if you've studied it that much , i'll probably defer to you. talk to scott if it needs to be changed/updated.

 

[Grazzt]

I will take a closer look at them, but all the dragons in the CC were converted using the exact same formula that WotC used to convert the MM dragons from 2e to 3e.

(Yeppers- I have reverse engineered the formula they used and it works perfectly...just havent posted it anywhere. I am not sure WotC wants it getting out just yet).

 

[CRGreathouse]

I will take a closer look at them, but all the dragons in the CC were converted using the exact same formula that WotC used to convert the MM dragons from 2e to 3e.

(Yeppers- I have reverse engineered the formula they used and it works perfectly...just havent posted it anywhere. I am not sure WotC wants it getting out just yet).

Why, then, the divergent CRs? Adamantite dragons are powerful, sure, but are they really 1.4 million times more powerful than gold dragons as your conversion indicates (great wyrm vs. great wyrm)?

The only things I have issues with are the CRs; these conversions, as your other conversions, are quite good.

Edit: Added the critical words "than gold dragons" above.

 

[maddman75]

*bump* so I can find it later - come to the chat!

 

[Grazzt]

I see the problem now....it lies more along the lines that WotC's dragon's are severely skewed with regards to their CR rankings, but I have (am in the process) of correcting the Adamantite Dragon to make it more in line with their version.

Works along the same lines as the demon lords and devil lords......really powerful monsters tend to skew or break the CR rankings.

 

[BOZ]

maybe things will be a bit clearer if CRs are given in DDG?

 

[CRGreathouse]

Ah, much better. Thanks!