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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3850374" data-attributes="member: 22882">So basically, take the monster books for a universal system, D&D, two other games that are D&D without the name, a very old fantasy RPG no longer on the market AFAIK, and two iconic properties that don't actually HAVE the monster that's under debate?How about, just off the top of my head, Exalted, Runequest and Fantasy HERO, all of which are currently in publication and considerably bigger than, say, Rolemaster?  If you're going as far as C&C, may as well throw the World of Darkness games, Mutants and Masterminds and Spirit of the Century in, too.WH, C&C, Runequest, Fantasy HERO and Exalted do not have a "frost giant" in their core monster materials.  Ditto WoD, M&M and SotC.Nor does the frost giant bear much resemblance to the mythic giants I'm aware of; its Norse ancestry is questionable, considering that the Jotuns, who I've seen referred to as 'frost giants' outside D&D material, are powerful enough to threaten the Aesir gods and far beyond the ability of mortals to fight.  Even after the buffing giants got in AD&D 2e, they're still nowhere near that level.Now, with that said, I actually think the frost giant may be worth keeping because it DOES have a fairly rare schtick: it's a cold-oriented creature.  That's actually quite rare, at least going by the 3.5 MM1.  The fire giant is the one I would make into a sidebar in the core rules, since fire-using, fire-based and fire-oriented creatures are a dime a dozen and it's mechanically little more than a temperature swap of the frost giant.</blockquote>

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