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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoonSong" data-source="post: 5909223" data-attributes="member: 6689464">First, you are asuming powers and healing surges are going to be core, which remains to be seen and isn't going to get any goodwill. Now the "have just 4 classes then use themes/whatever to get the rest"  has been repeated over and over at nauseum, and it keeps provoking the same answers. AFAIK not a single edition has had only four classes and extra layers of difficulty to get more classes - no not even 2e-. (Perhaps the only exception would be basic where the Paladin was an advanced version of the fighter, but even there it wasn't just another layer of class mechanics and it wasn't just four classes, racial classes were there too)  And have them now would really drive away lots of players. The main point of Next is to have the option to play simplre and complex versions of the same class on the same table. Having the simple Barbarian being a complex version of the fighter hurts the player wanting a simple Barbarian -"lots of work just to get a generic barbarian, I wanted it simple dammit!"- and the one wanting a complex Barbarian -"great I'm stuck playing a cliché and can't make it suit my tastes because I've burnt all of my customizing options just to get a run of the mill Barbarian!". Not only that, it also hurts the player wanting to play a fighter, because the support for the fighter gets watered down in order to put the "Barbarian Kit" "Ranger Kit" "Paladin kit", etc. And worse some of the complex classes (Bard, Monk) just deffy this classification system, and forcing them to fit one slot would be an oversimplification. What is a Bard? a magic user/rogue? if so why does he have proficiency with shields both classes lack? Why is he more social than both? And why 4e decided they were more of a cleric analogue? The simplest answer is Bards are their own beast, they cannot be satisfactorily folded into another class, the only way to create satisfactory bards is for them to be their own class. And once you open the door to archetypes being their own class, is only fair the Paladins, Barbarians, Monks and Sorcerers be full-classes too.</blockquote>

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