Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Balance and Uniformity (an essay)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5784876" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>Theoretically, you could use negative feedback loops as a means for elegant balance across disparate systems, in a way that is not fixed but rather mostly self-adjusts for the actual game being played. The trick, of course, in tabletop games is to do that without making it too complicated and/or counter-intuitive.</p><p> </p><p>For a crude illustration, say that we have a mechanic that tracks the amount of magic used by each character over an adventure (or period of time, if you prefer). Assume they are still using traditional Vancian slots, or something similar, for tracking of spells. Then in addition, you have a bonus or penalty to the level of the spell, based on how much has been cast by that character thus far. (You'd need the ability for higher level spells to be cast as if from a lower-level caster.) This adjusts as magic is cast.</p><p> </p><p>So Blastum the wizard sets off with his friends. Since nothing has happened yet, he gets a +3 level to all his spells when figuring the effects. They meet some piddly orcs, and Blastum being that kind of guy, uses a fireball on them, practically ending the encounter. That's a third level slot. This goes on the counter. Maybe that was enough to drop him to +2 level on his remaining spells. Keep it up, he can go all the way down to -3. The more he does, the less effective he is. (You can rationalize this as fatigue or any number of such things.)</p><p> </p><p>Ideally, you then give your standard wizard more slots than he should normally use. Now, he also has a bit more flexibility, in that <strong>he has spells prepared that he probably won't use if played efficiently</strong>. Because there is some optimum point at which he becomes increasingly ineffective. We don't know exactly where that is, but it doesn't matter. It's there. It being there is what harnesses the power gamer instinct into restraint.</p><p> </p><p>Finally, there are tweaks for each group, which is what makes this really work. If Blastum is really feeling frustated and not accomplishing much, up the range and/or up the threshold. Now he can do more. OTOH, if everyone is ticked that Blastum is dominating every encounter (or Blastum's player is embarassed that he is), lower one or both. Now he has to be more strategic. </p><p> </p><p>Now obviously this is a variation on the conceit that magic is relatively rare and powerful and should be conserved carefully for when it matters. Depending upon how much you valued that conceit, you might also tinker with the numbers in ways that had nothing to do with balance for other characters. (That is, the wizard might be thus tweaked into a dominating character or shoved back into a supporting sage, depending on your inclinations.) Even then, though, there are still concrete, flavorful limits.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5784876, member: 54877"] Theoretically, you could use negative feedback loops as a means for elegant balance across disparate systems, in a way that is not fixed but rather mostly self-adjusts for the actual game being played. The trick, of course, in tabletop games is to do that without making it too complicated and/or counter-intuitive. For a crude illustration, say that we have a mechanic that tracks the amount of magic used by each character over an adventure (or period of time, if you prefer). Assume they are still using traditional Vancian slots, or something similar, for tracking of spells. Then in addition, you have a bonus or penalty to the level of the spell, based on how much has been cast by that character thus far. (You'd need the ability for higher level spells to be cast as if from a lower-level caster.) This adjusts as magic is cast. So Blastum the wizard sets off with his friends. Since nothing has happened yet, he gets a +3 level to all his spells when figuring the effects. They meet some piddly orcs, and Blastum being that kind of guy, uses a fireball on them, practically ending the encounter. That's a third level slot. This goes on the counter. Maybe that was enough to drop him to +2 level on his remaining spells. Keep it up, he can go all the way down to -3. The more he does, the less effective he is. (You can rationalize this as fatigue or any number of such things.) Ideally, you then give your standard wizard more slots than he should normally use. Now, he also has a bit more flexibility, in that [B]he has spells prepared that he probably won't use if played efficiently[/B]. Because there is some optimum point at which he becomes increasingly ineffective. We don't know exactly where that is, but it doesn't matter. It's there. It being there is what harnesses the power gamer instinct into restraint. Finally, there are tweaks for each group, which is what makes this really work. If Blastum is really feeling frustated and not accomplishing much, up the range and/or up the threshold. Now he can do more. OTOH, if everyone is ticked that Blastum is dominating every encounter (or Blastum's player is embarassed that he is), lower one or both. Now he has to be more strategic. Now obviously this is a variation on the conceit that magic is relatively rare and powerful and should be conserved carefully for when it matters. Depending upon how much you valued that conceit, you might also tinker with the numbers in ways that had nothing to do with balance for other characters. (That is, the wizard might be thus tweaked into a dominating character or shoved back into a supporting sage, depending on your inclinations.) Even then, though, there are still concrete, flavorful limits. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Balance and Uniformity (an essay)
Top