Balance : GM's job or everyone's?

[Shallown]

I just posted in another thread and was thinking about this. Sometimes it seems on the boards that the players are busy trying to unbalance the game and the Gm fights to balance the Game.

I'm proud to say my players work almost as hard as I do to keep things balanced. Using spells then later telling me the spell is broken and needs to change or go away. The point out to me when taking a feat how it might be abused.

What is everyone else's experience?

later

 

[Crothian]

It's a group thing. We all are part of the group, they trust me, I trust them, they trust each other. It's important for balance to have trust. This way if something does seem to be too strong, you can trust the players and the DM to be able to handle it.

 

[Umbran]

First, you better define what you mean by "balance", because not everyone uses the term the same way.

For me, the only "game balance" that matters is balance between the PCs. All the PCs should have an equal opportunity to be effective over the long haul.

As a player, I tend to follow that line. I will tend to avoid tectics and combinations that lead my character to outshine others, and I don't tend to hog the spotlight. I feel absolutely no obligation to keeping balanced with what the DM throws at me. If everyone is kicking butt and taking names, I join right in

In general, though, I think minding balance is the DM's job. The DM is the rules-abriter, so in the end final control of rules-based balance is in the DM's hands.

 

[Shallown]

I guess I woud define balance as being fair. Its hard to define since it depends on so many factors. I think my question deals more with does the GM and players percieve things as balanced at the same point. does the GM se feat X as unbalanced but players think it is Balanced. Not wether group A and Group B see Feat X as balanced.

So to rephrase the question somewhat, Do GMs and players have to see eye to eye (mostly) on balance or is it up to the GM alone? and what is everyone's personaly experience in that area.

 

[dreaded_beast]

In general, I believe that sometimes what a player believes is balanced does not allows coincide with what a DM believes is balanced.

A player make come up with a million reasons why something IS balanced and a DM may come up with another million ideas why something ISN'T balanced and vice-versa.

I believe that players and DMs must work together to maintain balance in their game, whatever their definition of "balance" is.

 

[Hand of Evil]

The DM - players just play for the most part, taking what they get and using it to their abilities, DM's control loot, EXP, NPCs, house rules, etc. DM should dicuss with the players, get their input, adjust their games to keep things balanced.

 

[Cor Azer]

I think it's mostly the responsibility of the DM, although the players need to be mature enough to handle the DM's decisions.

In my experiences (of late, at least), players are generally looking for options. They want to try to do the latest neat thing they read, saw, or heard about and have (somewhere) found the mechanics to do so. The player isn't deliberately trying to unbalance the game; they just want to try something new.

It's the DMs responsibility to make sure this new thing doesn't outshine one of the other characters in an unintended fashion, or give the character in question more power than it should.

Of course, player input on such things is necessary. I have in the past noted when certain players of mine have started to feel like their toes were being stepped on, but I'm not all-knowing, so I'm glad when players give me feedback on what the other characters are doing. Ultimately though, it's up to me as the DM to address the issue.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I think it's the DM's job. When I DM, I'm the ultimate responsibility for balance both internal (PCs being effective compared to other PCs) and external (PCs being balanced against monsters at an appropriate CR). If players have balance issues they can talk to me about them, but this hasn't really happned yet -- I run a tight ship.

When I make mistakes in what I allow or how I rule, I'm frank with my players about it. I'll usually 'grandfather' existing PCs or let them change the mechanics of their characters to fit the new way, at their option. (For example, I previously allowed the Frenzied Berserker in my game. I later decided this was a mistake. If I had a FB in the group, I would have let him keep existing class levels and abilities or change them in for a similar class [i.e., barbarian].)

When I'm playing in another DM's campaign, I expect him to keep the balance (in whatever way he sees fit). If I have a balance problem in his campaign I'll talk to him after the session about my concerns and let him handle it however he sees fit -- though I will give advice.

 

[Ylis]

Ideally, balance should be a group issue. However, in my experience, the players tend to try to overthrow balance in order to have the better advantage. I think it's more of human nature to do so, lol, as their character's survival is at stake. I'm lucky in that *most* of my players don't overly wreak havoc on the balance. There is one that does tend to like having his player be "the best" in every situation...but I think most groups have one of those

 

[Henry]

Ultimately, it's the DM's responsibility. Now, the players COULD be nice and help out, but..

We have a relatively new DM, who has given our 8th level party a Ring of Fire Elemental Command, which I currently possess. Yes, a 200,000 gold piece magic item, for an 8th level character. I asked him if he meant for us to have the thing, given its power level, but he has no qualms about it, numerous times, so I kept it. It's been REEEAAAL handy being able to toss out a 15 hit dice Flame strike every now and then. In all, however, it has not unduly unbalanced the game, because the party as a whole is pretty well equipped; I rarely use it for anything except the flame strike, the wall of fire, and the fire resistance, and we've NEVER faced a fire elemental at all, so some of its major powers get unused.