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Balance in 4th: All Powers for All Classes All the Time?
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<blockquote data-quote="77IM" data-source="post: 4533787" data-attributes="member: 12377"><p>That seems fine. Mike Mearls even said you could do it. I don't have a reference, but it was in a podcast... he said it would erode the niche protection offered by classes but that powers were roughly balanced across roles, because generally class features provide the role rather than the powers. Certain classes seem to break this rule (like barbarian and wizard) by having extremely role-oriented powers but even still I think they are balanced "close enough" that all the PCs should wind up equally cool.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't like this idea at all (because it seems like it would be really difficult, and I am strongly biased towards ease of play). Two things immediately jump to mind:</p><p></p><p>1. Utility powers have different usage limits. If I use an Encounter Utility 2 in one fight, then a Daily Utility 2 in the next fight, what happens in the third fight? Can I keep using Encounter Utilities but not Daily Utilities? Or did I use up my level 2 Utility for the day? Should the use of an Encounter Utility in the first fight prevent me from upgrading to a Daily? Now add At-Will Utilities into the mix and it gets even hairier.</p><p></p><p>2. I game with people who are really smart and have been role-playing for years in many different systems and they still have trouble keeping track of the handful of powers <em>written on their character sheets</em>. The group is now level 5-6 and they still forget to use their racial powers and magic item powers, have trouble remembering which of their attacks are against which defense and how much [W] they do, and generally spend a lot of time smacking their heads going "d'oh! I should have used power X last round!"</p><p></p><p>It's not that my players are dumb -- just that the power system is already complex, <em>especially in the context of a raging combat</em>. Allowing people access to all the powers at once would be a non-starter: the important tactical decisions of which power to use and when becomes even more important, but also more difficult and time-consuming. Players like making decisions but having to make too many difficult decisions isn't fun for most people. Consider how many powers there are that are immediate interrupts; whenever anyone does anything, every player needs to decide whether to use one of those powers.</p><p></p><p>In previous editions, players didn't get to pick all their powers right in the middle of combat. It was done at spell-preparation time, which reduced the in-combat selection space to at most a few dozen spells, which the player has familiarized themselves with ahead of time. You might seek out options like that. For example, maybe arcane and divine casters can swap their powers during an extended rest; maybe martial characters can swap powers during combat, but only once per encounter. Even still, I anticipate combats taking longer and not being any more interesting.</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying this is a bad idea, just that it seems like it would make the game really difficult. You know your group far better than I so if you think they are into this sort of thing then go for it and let us know how it works out. If you can figure out a way to keep the page-flipping and decision-paralysis to a minimum then this could be a really interesting rules variant.</p><p></p><p> -- 77IM</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="77IM, post: 4533787, member: 12377"] That seems fine. Mike Mearls even said you could do it. I don't have a reference, but it was in a podcast... he said it would erode the niche protection offered by classes but that powers were roughly balanced across roles, because generally class features provide the role rather than the powers. Certain classes seem to break this rule (like barbarian and wizard) by having extremely role-oriented powers but even still I think they are balanced "close enough" that all the PCs should wind up equally cool. I don't like this idea at all (because it seems like it would be really difficult, and I am strongly biased towards ease of play). Two things immediately jump to mind: 1. Utility powers have different usage limits. If I use an Encounter Utility 2 in one fight, then a Daily Utility 2 in the next fight, what happens in the third fight? Can I keep using Encounter Utilities but not Daily Utilities? Or did I use up my level 2 Utility for the day? Should the use of an Encounter Utility in the first fight prevent me from upgrading to a Daily? Now add At-Will Utilities into the mix and it gets even hairier. 2. I game with people who are really smart and have been role-playing for years in many different systems and they still have trouble keeping track of the handful of powers [i]written on their character sheets[/i]. The group is now level 5-6 and they still forget to use their racial powers and magic item powers, have trouble remembering which of their attacks are against which defense and how much [W] they do, and generally spend a lot of time smacking their heads going "d'oh! I should have used power X last round!" It's not that my players are dumb -- just that the power system is already complex, [i]especially in the context of a raging combat[/i]. Allowing people access to all the powers at once would be a non-starter: the important tactical decisions of which power to use and when becomes even more important, but also more difficult and time-consuming. Players like making decisions but having to make too many difficult decisions isn't fun for most people. Consider how many powers there are that are immediate interrupts; whenever anyone does anything, every player needs to decide whether to use one of those powers. In previous editions, players didn't get to pick all their powers right in the middle of combat. It was done at spell-preparation time, which reduced the in-combat selection space to at most a few dozen spells, which the player has familiarized themselves with ahead of time. You might seek out options like that. For example, maybe arcane and divine casters can swap their powers during an extended rest; maybe martial characters can swap powers during combat, but only once per encounter. Even still, I anticipate combats taking longer and not being any more interesting. I'm not saying this is a bad idea, just that it seems like it would make the game really difficult. You know your group far better than I so if you think they are into this sort of thing then go for it and let us know how it works out. If you can figure out a way to keep the page-flipping and decision-paralysis to a minimum then this could be a really interesting rules variant. -- 77IM [/QUOTE]
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