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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steelwill" data-source="post: 5833378" data-attributes="member: 90458">True and there are many things that 4E addressed very well that were concerns from 3.5, but it is entirely valid to say some of the concerns were stuff from a vocal minority not the silent majority in some cases, and in others, 4E's attempted solutions were not better than just dealing with the original problem. Also 4E wasn't 3.75, so it brought a bunch of it's very own issues to the table that had nothing to do with correcting 3.5 problems.   Maybe not, but if the discussed options are either 3.5 or 4E if we don't like what 4E is doing, then the other option is 3.5.  I am sure many folks aren't opposed to a third completely new innovative option, but in these discussions by and large it becomes either or 3.5 or 4.   There was a section, one that said, the DM has final say on the rules and shouldn't be afraid to tell players no.  Unfortunately, bad DM's and powergamers gave that option a bad rap, even though its the very reason to have a live referee at the game.  Use the freaking DM.  I am not saying write sloppy rules and expect him to clean them up, but certainly use that living breathing arbiter to help adjudicate corner cases and abuses without having to throw the baby out with the bathwater due to unreasonable fear of preventing such things from ever happening. Which is what I feel 4E did instead of making use of a DM as a resource.Making the change mechanically insignificant negates the point of the change.  Player's of a game in which enemies and challenges ever increasingly try to kill them should not be punished for seeking power, and choices should be tied to the mechanics in meaningful ways.  Parallel increases are just number inflation. (I gain +2 to hit and 5 hit points, but all enemies at this level have +2 AC, and do more damage = no change just number inflation).  Same with +half level added to everything being no change when the enemies all scale up the same rate. Same with so many powers that do X damage + effect only differentiated by fluff text.  There is only the illusion of gained advantage, without the actual advantage, and 4E design totally loves this.  It is also why a lvl 10, a lvl 20, and a lvl 30 character more or less play about the same.  Refluffling and number inflation to cover up a system that never actually changes so it can maintain its perfect numerical balance is total bunk, and that pretty much describes 4E, and why there is so little room allowed for variance.  This is at its core why 4E becomes a snore, because it doesn't take long before folks notice the smoke and mirrors.  REAL GAINS not illusions of gain for making choices.  Not lateral, re-flavored versions of the same choice.  Players want their decisions to matter.  My 2 cents.</blockquote>

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