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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5834800" data-attributes="member: 87792">Mearls was wrong.  If you play 4e you have all the instruments of a thrash metal band.  Three electric guitars, a keyboard, and a drum kit, plus occasional other instruments.  You're never going to play chamber orchestra music that sounds like the original.  But with 4e I've played games I'd consider to be anything from The Clash to Dr Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, from Blind Guardian to Queen, and from Michael Jackson to Dragonforce.It's not a perfect game.  But it's a collection of instruments that work well together rather than a single genre.  Zeitgeist is not thrash metal.  And I wouldn't use 4e rules for a gritty game for example (I've got GURPS for that).That said, most of the adventures that have been put out for 4e by Wizards are paint-by-numbers Thrash Metal.  WoTC are instrument makers, not composers.  And it shows.By contrast 3e is an entire pile of instruments, some in tune, some out, and some that can be tuned every performance.  (If necessary you can turn on the autotune for 4e).  Some of the instruments are in tune, some are badly out, and some of the instruments have e.g. two in tune strings and you can learn which they are.  And what's really annoying is that some of the instruments are tuned to concert pitch, others to baroque pitch.This doesn't mean that you can't make an excellent sound out of this pile of instruments - or score things for drumsticks and broken fridges and cookers a la Hurra Torpedo and have an absolute whale of a time.  But if I'm playing Smoke on the Water I probably want the guitars, the keyboard, and the drums - and a set that are already definitely in tune are a good start.No.  What makes 3e monks The Load (or a wandering problem that the DM needed to fix) is the mathematics and the design focus.  On the other hand, as I've shown, you can make interesting music with kitchen appliances or by adding a typewriter, as Leroy Anderson did, to an otherwise normal group.My serious objection to 3e is I don't want a collection of out of tune instruments - and I want the typewriters, the kitchen appliances, and the triangle to come clearly labeled rather than in a box that is just marked with a makers' mark.  Yes, you learn which these are.  But they are presented as instruments in 3e.I'm not talking about the range of experiences.  I'm talking about specific experiences.  Specific experiences that it was claimed could not be played.  And that claim is flat wrong.  I get that with a gnome illusionist or a summoner you will not have the same play experience as before.Edit - hyperlinks removied - I don't want the youtube previews cluttering everything up.</blockquote>

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