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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ziggy" data-source="post: 837046" data-attributes="member: 148">In my view the ECL values of SS are:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Too high for any spellcaster, as more than ECL 1 is almost impossible to balance with special abilities (see also the Mystic Theurge discussion)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Pretty correct at low levels for other classes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Too low at high levels for most classes when your higher CON compensates for HP loss, and your other stats boosters take you into territory usually not reachable by standard classes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The monster classes are usually very generous at lower levels (e.g. look at the celestials below level 10), balanced at 10-15, might be somewhat underpowered at really high levels when magic can duplicate most of those special powers.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> The half-ogre is a joke at ECL 1. I rate it a strong 2 or maybe a weak 3.</li> </ul>The main problem with ECL values are the differences in growth rate between the different types of classes. While the loss of one or two levels is possible to compensate with high STR and CON for a fighter, it is almost impossible to compensate the loss of spell levels for a spellcaster. Coupled with the non-linear growt of D&D, ECL can at best be balanced at certain points in the growth scale..Ziggy</blockquote>